Sempervivum and Jovibarba forum: semp colors in warm regions

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Name: Kate
NEKingdom of Vermont (Zone 3a)
[url=www.LabourofLoveLandscaping.co
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant and/or Seed Trader Sempervivums Tropicals Garden Ideas: Level 1
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LabourofLove
Oct 3, 2016 6:38 PM CST
So, I have a wholesale buyer in central Florida who asked me whether the semps I send will color up in the Spring without the cold weather they are accustomed to. I have no idea what the answer is to that. I'm in almost-Canada/Northern Vermont. I'm hoping someone here can educate me. I will be digging them before the ground freezes here and shipping them late October or early November.

I'm really interested in the mechanics of the freeze cycle as it applies to color differences; for instance are colors more vivid if the plant is exposed to colder temps.

Any input will be greatly appreciated.
Kate Kennedy Butler
Glover, Vermont

life without music would be a mistake Nietzsche
[Last edited by LabourofLove - Oct 3, 2016 8:47 PM (+)]
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Name: Bev
Salem OR (Zone 8a)
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webesemps
Oct 3, 2016 7:01 PM CST
I have found that most semps have their color in the Spring but oddly there are those semps that deepen in color in the cold. I couldn't tell you which they are as I've not noted the observations. Maybe Kevin, Lynn, Chris or others can chime in with their observations, knowledge, etc.
@valleylynn @JungleShadows @goldfinch4

Name: Lynn
Dallas, OR (Zone 8b)
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valleylynn
Oct 3, 2016 8:32 PM CST

Moderator

You got me on that question. I have no idea the total effect that a lack of cold could have on semps coloring up.
Maybe Kevin will be able to answer this question.
Name: Julia
Washington State (Zone 7a)
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springcolor
Oct 3, 2016 11:02 PM CST
Are they even going to survive down there?
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Name: Chris
Ripon, Wisconsin
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goldfinch4
Oct 4, 2016 2:34 AM CST

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Sorry, but I really don't know the answer to that either. Maybe one of our Florida members can help?
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Name: Lynn
Dallas, OR (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Garden Sages I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Database Moderator
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valleylynn
Oct 4, 2016 7:48 AM CST

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I know there are people that have tried them in Florida, Kate from Cubits comes to mind. Chris do you remember the horse topiary she did?
Name: Chris
Ripon, Wisconsin
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goldfinch4
Oct 5, 2016 4:01 AM CST

Moderator

Yes Lynn, I do. It was very cool!!
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Name: Paul
Antelope Valley, S. California
Zone 8B/9A
Region: California
cahdg6891
Oct 5, 2016 4:11 PM CST
It's a mixed bag in my experience. Our winters are pretty cold and some sempervivum will color up when the temperature drops and others not so much. Sun exposure seems to be as big of a factor as temperature. On the flip side, when it gets hot some turn completely green or almost so whilst others turn partially green and others stay colorful. Here, it all seems to depends on the species or cultivar.
Name: tarev
San Joaquin County, CA (Zone 9b)
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tarev
Oct 5, 2016 4:21 PM CST
Usually some of my succulents, whether Semps or not, turn red when it gets cold stressed here, when overnight temps start hovering 50F and below. Of the few Semps I had and tried, Semp Rubellum 'Mahogany' turned red, and Semp Sir William Lawrence, had reddish tips when I got it in late Spring and it turned all green as our hot and dry conditions ensued towards summer. Once it gets way too hot, either they bolt or get too dried out or go mushy if I got too engrossed keeping them moist to endure summer.

Our temps here go in the extreme during summer so at very dry triple digits, so either the succulent goes somewhat dormant too, and returns vigor once Fall arrives and with the cooler temps nice colored hues.
[Last edited by tarev - Oct 5, 2016 4:23 PM (+)]
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Name: Kate
NEKingdom of Vermont (Zone 3a)
[url=www.LabourofLoveLandscaping.co
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant and/or Seed Trader Sempervivums Tropicals Garden Ideas: Level 1
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LabourofLove
Oct 8, 2016 8:20 PM CST
I appreciate everyones' help on this. I suppose I'll just have to send 'em and wait to hear back from him as to whether they colored up properly or not.
Kate Kennedy Butler
Glover, Vermont

life without music would be a mistake Nietzsche
Name: Kate
NEKingdom of Vermont (Zone 3a)
[url=www.LabourofLoveLandscaping.co
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant and/or Seed Trader Sempervivums Tropicals Garden Ideas: Level 1
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LabourofLove
Nov 1, 2016 5:28 PM CST
Well, more questions from the same buyer along the same lines.

How long do semps need cold (and how much cold) in order to make their best Spring colors? Or is it more a matter of footcandles of sunlight? I'm embarrassingly weak on the nuts and bolts of this sort of technical botanical knowledge.

He's interested in having me send frozen semps in December (they will freeze here during November - well before he wants them shipped. I need to know if they will color properly after only being chilled for a month.

Thanks in advance.
Kate Kennedy Butler
Glover, Vermont

life without music would be a mistake Nietzsche
Name: Lynn
Dallas, OR (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Garden Sages I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Database Moderator
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valleylynn
Nov 1, 2016 6:26 PM CST

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Wow, that is a good question Kate.
Part of it depends on which semps you would send. Many are coloring up now with beautiful winter colors.
What is he going to do with them? When does he need the color to show up?
Name: Greg Colucci
Seattle WA (Zone 8b)
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gg5
Nov 1, 2016 7:36 PM CST
Kate I think a month is good enough, here in Seattle a few years ago we had freezing temps only for a few days and my semps colored up really nicely! I tip my hat to you.
Plants bring me peace and calm, more of what we all need Smiling
Name: Kate
NEKingdom of Vermont (Zone 3a)
[url=www.LabourofLoveLandscaping.co
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant and/or Seed Trader Sempervivums Tropicals Garden Ideas: Level 1
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LabourofLove
Nov 2, 2016 6:22 AM CST
valleylynn said:Wow, that is a good question Kate.
Part of it depends on which semps you would send. Many are coloring up now with beautiful winter colors.
What is he going to do with them? When does he need the color to show up?


He's wanting color in January and February for the trade shows.
Kate Kennedy Butler
Glover, Vermont

life without music would be a mistake Nietzsche
Name: Lynn
Dallas, OR (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Garden Sages I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Database Moderator
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valleylynn
Nov 2, 2016 8:13 AM CST

Moderator

Will he be holding them in a greenhouse then? Look in the database to see which ones will give you the most color in January and February.
Name: Greg Colucci
Seattle WA (Zone 8b)
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gg5
Nov 2, 2016 11:34 AM CST
Kate some of the purple and red ones that have that coloration all year long. And sounds like it is just this one time event, not that they're growing them and hoping they color up each year in January and Feb right?? Cause that probably won't happen. I think whatever ones are currently colorful for you would retain their color, or be in the process of changing which can actually look really pretty, having multiple colors at the same time! I tip my hat to you.
Plants bring me peace and calm, more of what we all need Smiling
Name: Kate
NEKingdom of Vermont (Zone 3a)
[url=www.LabourofLoveLandscaping.co
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant and/or Seed Trader Sempervivums Tropicals Garden Ideas: Level 1
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LabourofLove
Nov 2, 2016 4:34 PM CST
It's such a conundrum for me - my semps are snowed under from November to March; so I have no idea about winter colors.

No greenhouse and he pots single chicks and grows and sells year 'round.

Very much a learning experience for me, for sure.
Kate Kennedy Butler
Glover, Vermont

life without music would be a mistake Nietzsche
Name: Lynn
Dallas, OR (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Garden Sages I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Database Moderator
Forum moderator I helped beta test the first seed swap Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant and/or Seed Trader Garden Ideas: Master Level Sempervivums
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valleylynn
Nov 2, 2016 6:40 PM CST

Moderator

Good luck Kate. Group hug
Name: Greg Colucci
Seattle WA (Zone 8b)
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gg5
Nov 3, 2016 12:05 AM CST
Yes good luck Kate
Plants bring me peace and calm, more of what we all need Smiling
Name: Kate
NEKingdom of Vermont (Zone 3a)
[url=www.LabourofLoveLandscaping.co
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant and/or Seed Trader Sempervivums Tropicals Garden Ideas: Level 1
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LabourofLove
Nov 17, 2016 8:39 PM CST
An update from the buyer. Every year he buys 120,000 individual semps from growers in Guatemala and, although they are well-grown, they NEVER color up as he would like. So he's trying to source from areas with distinct seasonality to try for better colors to offer at the winter trade shows.

Kate Kennedy Butler
Glover, Vermont

life without music would be a mistake Nietzsche

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