Plant ID forum: Help with Spruce Tree I.D.

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Name: 🌺
(Zone 6b)
Image
SpringGreenThumb
Oct 5, 2016 11:00 AM CST
Someone just gave me a variety of free potted young spruce trees to plant in my forest yard. He says they are:

White Spruce and Serbian Spruce.
But that he wasn't going to guarantee the cultivar of any of them.

I believe there are 3 possibly 4 varieties.

Here is Spruce #1:







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Underside and upper side of the branches...





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Name: 🌺
(Zone 6b)
Image
SpringGreenThumb
Oct 5, 2016 11:09 AM CST
Spruce Tree #2:




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Name: 🌺
(Zone 6b)
Image
SpringGreenThumb
Oct 5, 2016 11:19 AM CST
Spruce Tree #3


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Upper side of branches are green. Lower side are white



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Name: Porkpal
Richmond, TX
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Keeper of Poultry Farmer Roses Raises cows
Garden Ideas: Level 2 Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier
porkpal
Oct 5, 2016 1:33 PM CST
I agree that you seem to have three varieties. Alas, I am no expert on evergreens and can't identify any of them.
Porkpal
Name: 🌺
(Zone 6b)
Image
SpringGreenThumb
Oct 5, 2016 7:04 PM CST
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I am almost wondering if Tree #3 is a weeper also. I'ts young but it's branches especially the tips seem to droop and point downward where as tree #1 and #2 all have tips that stiffly reach upward.

Here is the photo of tree #3


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Name: 🌺
(Zone 6b)
Image
SpringGreenThumb
Oct 5, 2016 7:26 PM CST
http://m.wikihow.com/Identify-Spruce-Trees

(How to identify types of spruce link.)

These next three pictures are all the same. The cone is about 1 1/2 inch long on this Tree #1.

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Name: 🌺
(Zone 6b)
Image
SpringGreenThumb
Oct 5, 2016 7:32 PM CST
Here are my suspicions...

Tree# 2 likely could be a Black Spruce. These ones have no cones yet.

Tree# 3 likely could be a Serbian weeping Spruce. It has no cones but it has definite silver under sides.

Tree# 1 likely could be a White Spruce.
Name: 🌺
(Zone 6b)
Image
SpringGreenThumb
Oct 5, 2016 8:03 PM CST
Here are a couple of screen shots of online pictures of weeping Serbian Spruce... the branches grow kind of outward/down and the tips droop down. This appears to be the way two of my trees in this truckload of misc. Spruce trees are growing.

(These pictures are screen shots and not pictures of my trees.)


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[Last edited by SpringGreenThumb - Oct 5, 2016 8:08 PM (+)]
Give a thumbs up | Quote | Post #1291736 (8)
Name: 🌺
(Zone 6b)
Image
SpringGreenThumb
Oct 5, 2016 8:14 PM CST
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Ya, Tree #1 with that cone looks like White Spruce.
Name: Porkpal
Richmond, TX
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Keeper of Poultry Farmer Roses Raises cows
Garden Ideas: Level 2 Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier
porkpal
Oct 5, 2016 8:37 PM CST
Where are the evergreen folks? Your research seems productive a confirmation would be nice.
Porkpal
Name: 🌺
(Zone 6b)
Image
SpringGreenThumb
Oct 5, 2016 9:30 PM CST
porkpal said:Where are the evergreen folks? Your research seems productive a confirmation would be nice.


😊😊 Thumbs up Thumbs up

Not sure if there are evergreen folks here. I think I made an excellent start. So I can at least begin to decide which tree to plant in what location. Some will be privacy and others will be ornamental, Hurray! Hurray!
Name: Rick R.
near Minneapolis, MN zone 4a
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Sages The WITWIT Badge Garden Photography Region: Minnesota Plant Identifier
Image
Leftwood
Oct 5, 2016 9:58 PM CST
SpringGreenThumb said:Someone just gave me a variety of free potted young spruce trees to plant in my forest yard. He says they are:

White Spruce and Serbian Spruce.
But that he wasn't going to guarantee the cultivar of any of them.

I believe there are 3 possibly 4 varieties.

Here is Spruce #1:

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Those two pics are the same tree?
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

At any rate, the tree #1 trees are white spruce

The tree #2 looks to be white spruce also, but might be black spruce. Once they are in the ground a few years, they will start growing normally. The only place you find black spruce for sale would be someone like your DNR, for trees for re-forestation. Black spruce are not good ornamental trees, and wouldn't be good for privacy, IMO, because they are narrow trees.

tree #3 is Serbian spruce

Those trees will be terribly rootbound. You will need to do major root surgery so the roots won't strangle each other as they grow and get fat. You will likely have severe winter burning of the needles, but new growth should push out fine. They will be pretty nude looking all next year, but they will eventually recover if you can wait a few years.
Name: 🌺
(Zone 6b)
Image
SpringGreenThumb
Oct 5, 2016 11:33 PM CST
THANK YOU SO MUCH!β€οΈβ€οΈπŸŒΊπŸŒΊπŸ‘πŸ»πŸ‘πŸ»



@Leftwood

Explain what you mean by "major surgery?"

I'm actually surprised that these 4 and 5 foot trees are in small little 3 5 gallon pots.

What causes severe winter burning?

I have Colorado Blue Spruces and they seem like they are doing great. They are full and thick. But they were in large 15 and 20 gallon pots when I bought them.

These Serbian and White were not from a Nursery. A fellow ordered hundreds of them as tiny seedlings and they grew up. These were extra he was glad to get rid of. I don't know what he ordered them or used them for.

[Last edited by SpringGreenThumb - Oct 5, 2016 11:37 PM (+)]
Give a thumbs up | Quote | Post #1291826 (13)
Name: 🌺
(Zone 6b)
Image
SpringGreenThumb
Oct 6, 2016 4:02 AM CST
How to plant root bound trees...


http://homeguides.sfgate.com/plant-rootbound-trees-44221.htm...

Name: 🌺
(Zone 6b)
Image
SpringGreenThumb
Oct 6, 2016 7:33 AM CST
@Leftwood

Here is a side by side picture of the spruce I thought were two different subspecies. The blue one with the longer needles is the 'White Spruce'. Do you still feel the tree with the shorter, smaller, and lighter colored needles could be a White Spruce?



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Name: 🌺
(Zone 6b)
Image
SpringGreenThumb
Oct 6, 2016 7:39 AM CST
If not a Black Spruce; could it be a Red Spruce?


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Name: Porkpal
Richmond, TX
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Keeper of Poultry Farmer Roses Raises cows
Garden Ideas: Level 2 Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier
porkpal
Oct 6, 2016 7:53 AM CST
Are the needles on the tree in question softer than the other White Spruce?
Porkpal
Name: 🌺
(Zone 6b)
Image
SpringGreenThumb
Oct 6, 2016 7:53 AM CST
Here is a side by side comparison of the tree top tips...


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Here is a comparison of the branching...


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And also a comparison of the Spruce Tree bark.



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My mind is still processing them as two different species. What is your professional opinion? @Leftwood
Name: 🌺
(Zone 6b)
Image
SpringGreenThumb
Oct 6, 2016 8:01 AM CST
porkpal said:Are the needles on the tree in question softer than the other White Spruce?


The short green needles a bit softer. The longer blue needles are more stiff. Forgive me for taking so long to reply. The system goes very slow for me.


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Name: Rick R.
near Minneapolis, MN zone 4a
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Sages The WITWIT Badge Garden Photography Region: Minnesota Plant Identifier
Image
Leftwood
Oct 6, 2016 10:36 AM CST
It's still hard to say if the one you original though might be a Black spruce is or is not that. I still say it could be either, because there can be a lot of variation in the species (think of how varied Homo sapiens is). And then growing in a pot is so stressful that true growth patterns don't always show as definitively as they might. It's clear that they all grew much better than they did last season.

Red spruce had not even entered my mind. It is certainly not native anywhere near Minnesota, and I don't think anyone grows it here. Even the MN Arboretum doesn't have any! (Or they all died.) About 20 years ago, I had one from a mail order nursery. It grew for about 8 years and then croaked. From what little I know about them, now that you mention it, I think it would be a stronger candidate than Black spruce. It would have better ornamental qualities, too. Once they all grow in the ground for a few years, they will be easier to identify with the truer characteristic growth. Black spruce is easily identified with the cones, but usually won't produce cones until much much older. Red spruce, I don't know.

See here about root girdling and the need for surgery:
http://www.missouribotanicalgarden.org/gardens-gardening/you...
http://www.treeboss.net/girdling-tree-roots.htm

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