Plant ID forum: Yellow flowering rainforest plant for id. please

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Name: Myriam
Ghent, Belgium (Zone 8a)
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bonitin
Nov 4, 2011 12:39 AM CST
I met this interesting plant on one of my walks in the rainforest, (Paraty, Brazil) the leaves were very pretty of a light blue-green, felt very smooth. A pity I didn't find one with an open flower..

[Last edited by bonitin - Nov 4, 2011 12:42 AM (+)]
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Name: Janet Super Sleuth
Near Lincoln UK
Charter ATP Member Organic Gardener Garden Photography Bee Lover Dragonflies Cat Lover
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JRsbugs
Nov 4, 2011 1:03 PM CST
Any clues on the family Myriam? The leaves remind me somewhat of something I know, I'm still trying to think what that is! Maybe Papaveraceae? Or thinking again, I see a similarity to the legume family, the leaves and flower habit is a little like cultivated garden peas? Fabaceae?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pea
Name: Myriam
Ghent, Belgium (Zone 8a)
Charter ATP Member Ferns Native Plants and Wildflowers Cat Lover Birds Bee Lover
Organic Gardener I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Frogs and Toads Plant Identifier
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bonitin
Nov 4, 2011 1:20 PM CST
No I had no clue Janet until now, as you mentioned maybe the pea family (Fabaceae) and when I zoomed in in the last picture, I saw two of these pea like pods Why did I not see that before...:rolleyes:
Thumb of 2011-11-04/bonitin/068344
Name: Janet Super Sleuth
Near Lincoln UK
Charter ATP Member Organic Gardener Garden Photography Bee Lover Dragonflies Cat Lover
Butterflies Birds Plant Identifier I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Spiders!
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JRsbugs
Nov 4, 2011 1:39 PM CST
Great! Big Grin I didn't notice the pods either!

I found a set of photos on Panoramio, the person appears to be from Brazil and they have a flowers section.. from which I found two generea with similar leaves, Zornia and Poiretia.

http://www.panoramio.com/photo/17810367

http://www.panoramio.com/photo/22171073

The listing..

http://www.panoramio.com/user/2652882/tags/Flowers

I searched Zornia and found a not very helpful photo of Zornia grandiflora

http://www.ib.unicamp.br/node/275

A start! Hilarious!
[Last edited by JRsbugs - Nov 4, 2011 1:40 PM (+)]
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Name: Myriam
Ghent, Belgium (Zone 8a)
Charter ATP Member Ferns Native Plants and Wildflowers Cat Lover Birds Bee Lover
Organic Gardener I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Frogs and Toads Plant Identifier
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bonitin
Nov 4, 2011 2:44 PM CST
Thanks Janet for the links, the leaves do have some similarity in shape of the Zornia and Poiretia, but it doesn't feel right.
The leaves on my plant were a bit stiff and waxy to the touch, almost like a succulent.. I have a feeling that the flower when open doesn't really look like a pea flower, I remember vaguely I saw a flower half open but deleted the picture probably as i cannot find it back.. Maybe it isn't in the pea family after all.. Rolling my eyes.

The link will be useful as I might recognize other plants, I still need an ID for.. Smiling
Name: Hetty
Sunny Naples, Florida (Zone 10a)
Plumerias Photo Contest Winner: 2015 Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Database Moderator
Forum moderator Region: Florida Cat Lover Garden Sages Cactus and Succulents Tropicals
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Dutchlady1
Nov 4, 2011 2:48 PM CST
The leaves remind me of Bauhinia.
Name: Janet Super Sleuth
Near Lincoln UK
Charter ATP Member Organic Gardener Garden Photography Bee Lover Dragonflies Cat Lover
Butterflies Birds Plant Identifier I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Spiders!
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JRsbugs
Nov 4, 2011 2:54 PM CST
Did you see the photo on the last link Myriam of Zornia grandiflora ? It looks quite similar and almost like a succulent, the photo with the yellow flower came up in a search and the name is in the text near it.

Yes Hetty they do! Bauhinia is also in Fabacea. The seed pods certainly look like the pea family too.



Name: Hetty
Sunny Naples, Florida (Zone 10a)
Plumerias Photo Contest Winner: 2015 Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Database Moderator
Forum moderator Region: Florida Cat Lover Garden Sages Cactus and Succulents Tropicals
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Dutchlady1
Nov 4, 2011 2:59 PM CST
I agree that it is clearly in the pea family (Fabaceae).
Name: Myriam
Ghent, Belgium (Zone 8a)
Charter ATP Member Ferns Native Plants and Wildflowers Cat Lover Birds Bee Lover
Organic Gardener I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Frogs and Toads Plant Identifier
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bonitin
Nov 4, 2011 4:10 PM CST
Yes, Janet I saw the photo on the last link, but it doesn't feel like that...the leaves on mine were not that thick either, it is hard to describe, the colour was a very beautiful pale bluish silky green.. (yes, they look a bit like some of the Bauhinia leaves Hetty) I think it will not be possible to get this one identified as I have no picture of the open flower..
Name: Janet Super Sleuth
Near Lincoln UK
Charter ATP Member Organic Gardener Garden Photography Bee Lover Dragonflies Cat Lover
Butterflies Birds Plant Identifier I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Spiders!
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JRsbugs
Nov 4, 2011 5:06 PM CST
I wasn't saying it was that one in the last link Myriam, only a possible Zornia species as there's several of them but nothing else comes up in a search. I've been through many of the genera in Fabiaceae but my computer is sometimes 'not responding' so I'll have to go do something else for now. Rolling my eyes. I got somewhere around the P's, I've looked at may different generea in Fabaceae and nothing else looks close.

The leaves on some pea family is sort of waxy, garden pea leaves are a little like that. I really doubt it belongs to another family but I could be wrong.

[Last edited by JRsbugs - Nov 4, 2011 5:06 PM (+)]
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Name: Myriam
Ghent, Belgium (Zone 8a)
Charter ATP Member Ferns Native Plants and Wildflowers Cat Lover Birds Bee Lover
Organic Gardener I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Frogs and Toads Plant Identifier
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bonitin
Nov 5, 2011 12:34 AM CST
You're right Janet, it could be a Zornia sp., I think we better give up on this one, it is hopeless, I have also been searching further in the Fabacea in de Flora do Brasil, but it is undoable to google every genus I don't know how you managed to get to the letter P!
Wow, you must have been searching for hours! Blinking
Thanks for all the hard work! I tip my hat to you.
Name: Janet Super Sleuth
Near Lincoln UK
Charter ATP Member Organic Gardener Garden Photography Bee Lover Dragonflies Cat Lover
Butterflies Birds Plant Identifier I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Spiders!
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JRsbugs
Nov 5, 2011 7:17 AM CST
Give up Myriam? Whistling Hilarious!

I have mostly only search for the genus name and not each species, and it is easier using the highlighting method,with a right click you can instantly do a google search then go to images. Sometimes searching for a species will bring different results, and often a site which gives more clues even if the correct plant hasn't come up. Also by looking at more images than on the first image search page brings results, or looking at a link on the web search where I sometimes find things which don't come up in an image search.

I have found more photos of Zornia species, some do have the same growth habit but as in many genera they can vary hugely even in flower type so the best thing you can go on is leaf type and habit, seed pods are a good incication too.

http://hvsh.cria.org.br/hv?action=byName&search=1&family=FAB...

An example of how to find photos not on an image search, this site in a web result has a link at the bottom to Missouri Botanical Garden..

http://www.tropicos.org/Name/13013054

Going to the site, I search for Zornia and get a list of links..

http://www.google.com/cse?cx=015816930756675652018:7gxyi5crv...

Clicking on the second link I get a list of links to photos.. none of the Zornia sp. there match, but it shows how they can be found when not in an image search. I found more photos somewhere else but I don't recall where I found them, one species showed a similar growth habit but the leaves were different.

http://www.mobot.org/mobot/madagasc/checkers/taxon/list.htm





Name: Janet Super Sleuth
Near Lincoln UK
Charter ATP Member Organic Gardener Garden Photography Bee Lover Dragonflies Cat Lover
Butterflies Birds Plant Identifier I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Spiders!
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JRsbugs
Nov 5, 2011 7:33 AM CST
Another example I found on the web, Kew Gardens herbarium image of Zornia harmsiana but I can't load the image, maybe another time it will open. I searched the herbarium for Zornia and found pages of them, some with images..

http://apps.kew.org/herbcat/getHomePageResults.do?homePageSe...

I can't find a thing on Zornia orbiculata, but an image of Cotyledon orbiculata came up and the similarity in leaf shape is strikiing!
[Last edited by JRsbugs - Nov 5, 2011 7:43 AM (+)]
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Name: Myriam
Ghent, Belgium (Zone 8a)
Charter ATP Member Ferns Native Plants and Wildflowers Cat Lover Birds Bee Lover
Organic Gardener I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Frogs and Toads Plant Identifier
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bonitin
Nov 5, 2011 12:44 PM CST
I had to go to town for a couple of hours... Rolling my eyes.

I should know by now that 'giving up' is not in your dictionary, Janet.. Hilarious!

The images of Kew gardens herbarium also don't want to load for me..

The hightlighting method is interesting, I remember having had that feature in Internet Explorer, Google Chrome is the one I'm using now, but it doesn't work that way, I'll change back to IE.. Hilarious!

I have a problem with looking at herbarium images of dead plants, so much valuable info gets lost in them, like the colour, the texture, I could even say 'the soul' of the plant.

That was a great lesson in how to search the web in an effective way, Janet ! Smiling

unfortunately no match yet..
Name: Janet Super Sleuth
Near Lincoln UK
Charter ATP Member Organic Gardener Garden Photography Bee Lover Dragonflies Cat Lover
Butterflies Birds Plant Identifier I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Spiders!
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JRsbugs
Nov 5, 2011 2:46 PM CST
Herbarium plants are sometimes a clue though Myriam, by seeing something of similar habit can help.

I can't remember what I searched for but I found another species with 'orbiculata' as the species, Chamaecrista orbiculata and I found that by seeing a similar habit in a herbarium photo. It's not your plant, but the leaves again are the same shape as Cotyledon orbiculata so there's a real chance it could be Zornia orbiculata, I used the 'find' on the page feature and it's the only other genus in Fabaceae in Brazil with that species name. There's 6 species of Chamaecrista with 'orbiculata' in the species name too as subspecies, it looks more of a woody plant but remember the tree in the nettle family! The flower shape looks a good possibility too.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mercadanteweb/sets/721576239987...
[Last edited by JRsbugs - Nov 5, 2011 3:36 PM (+)]
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Name: Janet Super Sleuth
Near Lincoln UK
Charter ATP Member Organic Gardener Garden Photography Bee Lover Dragonflies Cat Lover
Butterflies Birds Plant Identifier I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Spiders!
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JRsbugs
Nov 5, 2011 2:57 PM CST
I found another Chamaecrista which is very similar! It hasn't got a species name though, I searched for the genus on flickr..

http://www.flickr.com/photos/68587888@N00/2950580146/

More, one showing a seed pod..

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mercadanteweb/4680689752/in/pho...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mercadanteweb/4680689258/in/pho...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mercadanteweb/4680689446/

Chamaecrista cytisoides looks close!

http://www.flickr.com/photos/46560211@N04/4309931142/
[Last edited by JRsbugs - Nov 5, 2011 3:04 PM (+)]
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Name: Janet Super Sleuth
Near Lincoln UK
Charter ATP Member Organic Gardener Garden Photography Bee Lover Dragonflies Cat Lover
Butterflies Birds Plant Identifier I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Spiders!
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JRsbugs
Nov 5, 2011 3:09 PM CST
By jove I think I've found it! Rolling on the floor laughing

Chamaecrista desvauxi..

http://www.flickr.com/photos/andrebenedito/3463985439/in/pho...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/andrebenedito/3464804306/in/pho...
Name: Janet Super Sleuth
Near Lincoln UK
Charter ATP Member Organic Gardener Garden Photography Bee Lover Dragonflies Cat Lover
Butterflies Birds Plant Identifier I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Spiders!
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JRsbugs
Nov 5, 2011 3:14 PM CST
Better still!

Chamaecrista desvauxii var. latistipula

http://www.flickr.com/photos/cerrados/4363369768/

More photos..

http://rubens-plantasdobrasil.blogspot.com/2010/10/chamaecri...
[Last edited by JRsbugs - Nov 5, 2011 3:17 PM (+)]
Give a thumbs up | Quote | Post #174052 (18)
Name: Myriam
Ghent, Belgium (Zone 8a)
Charter ATP Member Ferns Native Plants and Wildflowers Cat Lover Birds Bee Lover
Organic Gardener I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Frogs and Toads Plant Identifier
Image
bonitin
Nov 5, 2011 3:32 PM CST
Hurray! Hurray! Hurray! Hilarious!
That is THE one!! I recognized it immediately! I recognized the open flower too, I must have deleted mine probably! It doesn't look like a pea flower at all..

Janet, you're unbelievable!!!!! I tip my hat to you.
Name: Janet Super Sleuth
Near Lincoln UK
Charter ATP Member Organic Gardener Garden Photography Bee Lover Dragonflies Cat Lover
Butterflies Birds Plant Identifier I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Spiders!
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JRsbugs
Nov 5, 2011 3:38 PM CST
Look at the flower bud on the second site too!

I'm just a nut case. Rolling on the floor laughing

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