Adeniums forum: Adeniums 101

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Name: Sheryl
Hot, hot, hot, Feenix, AZ (Zone 9b)
Charter ATP Member Region: Southwest Gardening Keeps Horses Dog Lover Cat Lover Permaculture
Butterflies Birds Cottage Gardener Herbs I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Irises
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sheryl
Nov 8, 2011 1:30 PM CST
Hi everyone!

I've been looking through the threads here and was particularly interested in Melissa's baby thread. I think I would like to try starting some, myself ... 'cause I'm in need of another expensive hobby! Whistling

So I have some questions.
1. I noticed no one mentioned using bottom heat when they were starting seeds. Should I just take that for granted?
2. I am not in a tropical area, so my plants would have to overwinter in my basement. It is pretty dark and cool down there. Would that be okay for plants that are dormant? Even if it gets as cool as 55f? Is it okay to keep them in the dark if they're dormant, or will fluorescent light be okay?
3. On the other hand, I have a hoop house that I can also use in spring- but it can get Very Hot in there at times- how hot can my plants get and be okay?

Thank you in advance for helping a newbie!
In the end, only kindness matters.

Science is not the answer, it is the question.


Name: Michael Hicks
Clermont, Fl
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Dog Lover Plumerias Orchids Tropicals
Amaryllis Region: Florida Region: United States of America Roses
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chefmike92
Nov 8, 2011 7:44 PM CST
this is long but it is what got me going also http://www.adeniumsindia.com has great info on all things including planting,care,breeding,trimming,forcing blooms just about everything


Adenium Care
Adeniums are one of the easiest to grow and most rewarding of the fat plants (caudiciforms). Their adaptability to a broad range of conditions makes them forgiving of less than ideal care. This attribute enables just about anyone to grow and bloom them despite individual climate conditions.
Light

In most areas it is best to provide the highest level of light possible. The exception are locales that experience extremely high temperatures combined with low humidity and drying winds. Under these conditions you will want to provide some shade during the seasons of most intense weather.
Potting Mix
We recommend a good quality, bark-based, soilless potting mix amended with coarse perlite (3 parts mix to 1 part perlite is adequate under most conditions) to improve aeration and drainage. If you are unable to find a local source of such a mix try visiting a commercial greenhouse grower. Most professional growers are plant enthusiasts themselves and will gladly sell you a bag or two of their mix and you're more than likely to get a good dose of very sound advice to go along with it.
Many sites on the internet recommend using extremely high percentages of drainage material (up to 70%) in the mix to avoid root rot. The problem with this method is that you run the risk of inadequate moisture and nutrient retention leading to a drastic slowing of growth that can actually increase the risk of rot rather than reducing it. Additionally, if you choose to grow in a mix such as this with a very high percentage of inert material, you will have to radically increase fertilization to compensate for the mixes lack of ability to retain nutrients.
Water
When you water, you should do so thoroughly. This means applying water until the potting mix is saturated and the excess begins to run out through the drainage holes. This will greatly reduce any possibility of harmful excess soluble salts accumulating in your mix.
The amount of time between waterings will vary based on your conditions, container size, and whether your Adenium(s) are in active growth or not. Ideally, you will allow the mix to almost dry before watering again. With a little practice you should be able to determine whether it’s time to water by lifting the pot and inspecting the upper surface of the potting mix. As the mix dries, your pots will become much lighter signalling that it’s time to water your Adeniums again.
Overwatering can lead to root rot and should be avoided, but if you have used a mix with adequate drainage you should have a fair margin for error. If you know that you have a heavy hand with the watering can you should add a slightly higher percentage of perlite to your mix.
Under watering can be nearly as destructive as overwatering, so you should never allow your mix to become dust dry as this will desiccate and destroy the delicate feeder roots necessary for water and nutrient uptake.
If you intend to hand water your Adenium(s) it is best if you use a good quality water breaker on your hose or watering can. This will prevent wash out and damage to delicate roots.
Fertilizer
Probably the simplest and most effective way of providing your Adenium(s) with proper nutrition is through the use of a good quality controlled release fertilizer. A balanced blend such as 13-13-13 or 14-14-14 will yield excellent results. These mixes are available in different release times ranging from a couple of months to nearly a year. We use and recommend the shorter release terms because they activate almost immediately, vs. up to several weeks for the longest term formulations, and will allow you to easily time the discontinuation of feed if you live in an area where your Adenium(s) will go through a period of winter dormancy.

Containers
Adeniums differ from many of the other fat plants in that they do not like to be underpotted, so it is important that you choose the appropriate size container. We think that it is best to use a container not much more than double the diameter of that of the caudex (swollen base). By keeping a watchful eye on root development you can step your plant(s) up to larger container(s) as needed. This will ensure healthy root development, keep the roots growing in fresh mix, and reduce the risk of rot associated with planting into a container which is too large initially. Our normal progression is from a 4" standard pot to a 6" azalea to a 6" standard to an 8" azalea to a 10" standard. After the 10" standard size we normally change from plastic to terra cotta or ceramic.
Whether you use plastic or ceramic is entirely up to personal preference but you must keep in mind that clay pots dry out much faster than plastic. An important fact to also remember is that the strong roots of Adeniums have no respect for clay or ceramic pots and, unless the container is bowl shaped, can easily break them as they grow.

Since the form of the caudex and large roots is as important as the bloom to many collectors, we feel we should mention that the formation of the caudex is controlled, to a large degree, by the depth and width of the container. This means that if you want a wide squat caudex and root system then you will want to choose a wider, shallower container. As you can see in the photo to the left, the base of the caudex is much narrower than the widest point of the roots. This type of form could never have been achieved in a narrower pot, nor would it have been likely to produce the large girth of roots in a very deep pot.

If you are growing an Adenium somalense or similar cultivar with an upright growth habit, you will want to select a narrower, deeper containe

Name: Sheryl
Hot, hot, hot, Feenix, AZ (Zone 9b)
Charter ATP Member Region: Southwest Gardening Keeps Horses Dog Lover Cat Lover Permaculture
Butterflies Birds Cottage Gardener Herbs I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Irises
Image
sheryl
Nov 9, 2011 10:56 AM CST
Thanks, Mike- you're the best. Now I'm off to that site to see if they have any temperature advice.

Did you use a heat mat when you started your seeds?
In the end, only kindness matters.

Science is not the answer, it is the question.


Name: Michael Hicks
Clermont, Fl
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Dog Lover Plumerias Orchids Tropicals
Amaryllis Region: Florida Region: United States of America Roses
Image
chefmike92
Nov 10, 2011 6:42 AM CST
no i did not BUT im in florida and it was about 80-85 in the day and 75 at night here is a pic of mine now
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its getting a lot cooler so im tempted on bringing mine inside and putting a grow light on them with the sun to get about 14-15 hrs sun and i have a heater that i would run under the shelf so the would be around 82-85 with the seedlings and the purple rose. our weather is getting cooler that i like to see at night last night got down to 55 and tonight 45 but then in the 60 which will be ok.

hope the site you find what you need
if not im sure someone can chime in with more info I AM NOT A SPECIALIST FOR SURE!!!!

mike
Name: Doris Klene
Greensburg,Indiana.
Horse,cattle owners click klenepipe
Charter ATP Member Mules Daylilies Tropicals Plant and/or Seed Trader Cut Flowers
Container Gardener Birds Bromeliad Seed Starter Region: Indiana Plumerias
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kareoke
Nov 10, 2011 7:07 AM CST
I never use a heat mat for mine and they did just fine.
Name: Sheryl
Hot, hot, hot, Feenix, AZ (Zone 9b)
Charter ATP Member Region: Southwest Gardening Keeps Horses Dog Lover Cat Lover Permaculture
Butterflies Birds Cottage Gardener Herbs I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Irises
Image
sheryl
Nov 10, 2011 8:32 AM CST
That's great, thanks for the info, Doris.

Lookin' good Mike. Are those from your own pollination efforts or did you purchase the seeds? The site you sent me to was great - lots of great info there.

From the digging I did yesterday on the net, it seems that anything under 40º means death, but 55º is low end of optimal... I'm guessing it shouldn't be a problem if the plants are dormant, anyway.
In the end, only kindness matters.

Science is not the answer, it is the question.


Name: Michael Hicks
Clermont, Fl
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Dog Lover Plumerias Orchids Tropicals
Amaryllis Region: Florida Region: United States of America Roses
Image
chefmike92
Nov 10, 2011 9:35 AM CST
i purchased those seeds i am getting ready to plant my seeds and looking to trade anyone that has some seeds. even if there dormant you don't want them to get to cold i lost to frost and some to freeze. just be careful on temps.

mike
Name: Doris Klene
Greensburg,Indiana.
Horse,cattle owners click klenepipe
Charter ATP Member Mules Daylilies Tropicals Plant and/or Seed Trader Cut Flowers
Container Gardener Birds Bromeliad Seed Starter Region: Indiana Plumerias
Image
kareoke
Nov 10, 2011 10:08 AM CST
Mike my pods are still not ready but I will let you know when they are.
Name: Melissa E. Keyes
St. Croix, U.S. Virgin Islands
Zone 11+
Charter ATP Member
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coconut
Nov 10, 2011 10:15 AM CST
Tennessee, an odd time of year to start seeds, but that's OK. Seeds are better in your case with a heat mat, they germinate best at 75/80 degrees. They are tropical plants.

Another vast site is siamadenium.com Takes a while to download, but you will be immersed for too much time, I always am!

OK, welcome to the forum, Sheryl, and hope to see you again!

Melissa
Thumb of 2011-11-10/coconut/24f214
Name: Sheryl
Hot, hot, hot, Feenix, AZ (Zone 9b)
Charter ATP Member Region: Southwest Gardening Keeps Horses Dog Lover Cat Lover Permaculture
Butterflies Birds Cottage Gardener Herbs I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Irises
Image
sheryl
Nov 10, 2011 1:38 PM CST
Why, thank you! Now that we have Daylight Savings Time, I have loooonnnngggg evenings to indulge myself....

I had seen your advice on the 'babies' thread (I think, could've been another thread) that recommended starting the seeds in the spring and the summer. Seeing as my light situation is limited, I think I might be better off to wait until then, so the babies have some sunlight as they mature. At this point, they'd only have the shop lights.
In the end, only kindness matters.

Science is not the answer, it is the question.


Name: Michael Hicks
Clermont, Fl
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Dog Lover Plumerias Orchids Tropicals
Amaryllis Region: Florida Region: United States of America Roses
Image
chefmike92
Nov 11, 2011 8:32 AM CST
sheryl
Melissa is right starting seeds could have a problem and turn you off and not want to try again. like i said i did not use a matte BUT it was warm here in florida. When i planted them i also put in black plastic trays so the sun heated them up. Now i have some more to start and im looking at my temps and think i might just do them inside i have a metro shelf that i adjust the shelf's and put a heater under it its a great safe heater and dosnt cost much to run. i will have to take pics as i put this up and bring babies inside.

mike
Name: Doris Klene
Greensburg,Indiana.
Horse,cattle owners click klenepipe
Charter ATP Member Mules Daylilies Tropicals Plant and/or Seed Trader Cut Flowers
Container Gardener Birds Bromeliad Seed Starter Region: Indiana Plumerias
Image
kareoke
Nov 11, 2011 10:40 AM CST
Well as I said befor I have never used a heat mat, I have a small enclosed shelving in my plant room I put my seeds in there under lights and they did just fine.
Name: Sheryl
Hot, hot, hot, Feenix, AZ (Zone 9b)
Charter ATP Member Region: Southwest Gardening Keeps Horses Dog Lover Cat Lover Permaculture
Butterflies Birds Cottage Gardener Herbs I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Irises
Image
sheryl
Nov 11, 2011 6:31 PM CST
Huh, interesting. Doris, have you started yours in fall/ winter?
In the end, only kindness matters.

Science is not the answer, it is the question.


Name: Michael Hicks
Clermont, Fl
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Dog Lover Plumerias Orchids Tropicals
Amaryllis Region: Florida Region: United States of America Roses
Image
chefmike92
Nov 11, 2011 9:11 PM CST
I have been told that the main thing in most rooting and germinating is either cold or heat. these need heat then good light but some people root plumeria on top of there refrigerator. hey if there fresh seeds they dont take to long to sprout so you can always do just a few and see how that does. im sure you dont keep your house at 85 but you can just find the warmest part of the house. it relay is not important until the sprout them they need sun. i just set up my grow shelf went to home depot and got a new grow light cost $ 9,99 for shop light and 9 for each bulb 2 needed and its 4 ft long its very bright. i also have 2 other old 18 in long ones im posting pics.

i took my metro shelf put in front of west window for afternoon sun

Thumb of 2011-11-12/chefmike92/e33019

Thumb of 2011-11-12/chefmike92/7c3cb8
then next to it i put my oil warming heater(its very safe) next to the wall and shelf


Thumb of 2011-11-12/chefmike92/069d4c

]

then i installed the lights one vertically between window and shelf and 2 hanging on the shelf's
loaded plants on the shelf


Thumb of 2011-11-12/chefmike92/428c05


Thumb of 2011-11-12/chefmike92/09e60d

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now i will take a insulating foil backed foam and put on top and down the front wich will reflect all the light back at the plants. then on the left side to trap the heat. i will run a fan in there if i need to and rotate plants when needed hoping to get the inside to about 82-85 degrees and run the lights for about 8 hrs after sun sets. if you look in the last photo you will see a little piece of the insulation.
Thumb of 2011-11-12/chefmike92/2556cf
the rest of the larger plants are in my porch on the south side so they get sun from noon till sunset for now


Thumb of 2011-11-12/chefmike92/4e20bd

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what sucks is some of my plants are covered with buds

Thumb of 2011-11-12/chefmike92/607fb3

oh yea that is just the adeniums i still have 12 hibiscus and 75 plumeria just covered with sheets for tonight

that was my great day and in 3 days will be 85 deg oh well that is florida and raising plants with no green house!!!
Name: Sylvain Forest
Delray Beach, FL (Zone 10a)
Almost like Lucy and me.
Orchids Plant and/or Seed Trader Plumerias Ponds Region: Florida Tropicals
Container Gardener
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lourspolaire
Nov 12, 2011 7:19 AM CST
Hi, everyone.

It was 68F outside this morning here in Delray Beach. The weatherman had predicted a cold front. It's not exactly the beginning of a glacial age, but it is cooler than the high 70s we were experiencing up until a few days ago. Nothing seems affected, so far. I don't expect any damages; it's just not that cool. I remember 2 winters ago, when they were forecasting nights in the 40s. I loaded up the adeniums on my trusted handcart and brought them in the house, along with a slew of lizards. Let's just say my wife was NOT a happy camper about that. By the time the first night was over, the adeniums had sensed a change in their environment and were dropping leaves all over the place: temperamental divas! Maybe the cure was worse than the cold. They bounced back, but seeing all those dropped leaves on the floor sure was disheartening.

Take care, all.
Sylvain.
Name: Doris Klene
Greensburg,Indiana.
Horse,cattle owners click klenepipe
Charter ATP Member Mules Daylilies Tropicals Plant and/or Seed Trader Cut Flowers
Container Gardener Birds Bromeliad Seed Starter Region: Indiana Plumerias
Image
kareoke
Nov 12, 2011 7:24 AM CST
Sheryl I have done summer and winter, both worked.
Mike my stand is wider than yours and has a clear plastic cover that goes over it, I don't have it set up right now as I have cut back a lot on plants,
Name: Sheryl
Hot, hot, hot, Feenix, AZ (Zone 9b)
Charter ATP Member Region: Southwest Gardening Keeps Horses Dog Lover Cat Lover Permaculture
Butterflies Birds Cottage Gardener Herbs I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Irises
Image
sheryl
Nov 12, 2011 10:09 AM CST
Great set up, Mike - I have one similar in my basement. It never occurred to me to use reflective material - smart, smart.

Thanks for that info, again, Doris. Maybe I'll just give it a try...
In the end, only kindness matters.

Science is not the answer, it is the question.


Name: Jonna
Mérida, Yucatán, México (Zone 13a)
Garden Procrastinator The WITWIT Badge Region: Mexico I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Ponds Tropicals
Enjoys or suffers hot summers Plumerias Plays in the sandbox Dog Lover Cat Lover
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extranjera
Nov 12, 2011 10:59 AM CST
I don't think you'd need to run the lights for 8 hours + sunlight? How long are your days now? Our days go from 11 hours in mid winter to 13 hours in mid summer, not a large range when you are nearer the equator. I'd think you could get by with only 11 hours of sunlight/lamp light and they would grow fine.
A day without sunshine is like, you know, night.
Name: Michael Hicks
Clermont, Fl
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Dog Lover Plumerias Orchids Tropicals
Amaryllis Region: Florida Region: United States of America Roses
Image
chefmike92
Nov 12, 2011 2:05 PM CST
Jonna
right now we are at about 10 hrs but the sun dosnt hit the plants till 1 pm so they get about 4 1/2 sun. I need to have the purple rose grown out and blooming in the spring to put them up for sale in the market. im looking for 12 -14 hrs of light for them. my collection are just getting natural light and if they go dorm it that's fine ill let them rest.

i got my insulation yrs ago but now i think you can get it at home depot now.



Name: Sheryl
Hot, hot, hot, Feenix, AZ (Zone 9b)
Charter ATP Member Region: Southwest Gardening Keeps Horses Dog Lover Cat Lover Permaculture
Butterflies Birds Cottage Gardener Herbs I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Irises
Image
sheryl
Nov 12, 2011 6:40 PM CST
Thumbs up
In the end, only kindness matters.

Science is not the answer, it is the question.


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