Our kinder goats have great milk. Quality home mixed feed and mixed grass hay. Then strained heated in a double boiler to 175 f. then straight into a iced salt water bath in the refrigerator. The milk level must not be be higher than the ice water. Or the milk takes,too long to cool. Our milk creams on top due to the super high milk fat in kinder milk.

Just thought I'd throw in this link about milk, beef and hormones:
http://www.bestfoodfacts.org/m...

About pasteurization, I'm afraid it is a necessary evil at this time in history. 82% of Americans live in urban areas and most have lost the antibodies necessary to safely drink clean raw milk. Homogenization is not necessary and really should be discontinued, although the jury is still out on whether it affects milk's nutritional values. I've read studies that went both ways.

Watch out, Kathleen. That site you just linked to is an industry-funded front group (all too common in this day and age, unfortunately, and it's deceptive.)

http://www.sourcewatch.org/ind...

Oberon46 said:does rice milk have those estrogens in it also? we drink it every day with our cereal.

No it does not.
Rice and Almond milk have no plant estrogens like soy and are good alternatives.

So something that has no milk in it is a safe substitute for milk? Is that like saying cottonseed oil is good for you. Cotton seeds aren't even oily.

Philip, as regards the milk substitute. If you're looking for a substitute as a:

"creamer" for coffee or tea, for instance, you can use soy milk, almond milk, rice milk.

"baking" you can use any liquid including broth. I can't use milk at all and do use chicken or vegetable broth when making crepes. Corn bread I use broth. Any savory dish I'll sub with broth. Cakes, cookies that call for milk I'll use almond milk.

"cereal" I'll use the soy, almond and rice milks ... but to tell you the truth I love fresh orange juice on cold cereal.

When you say "safe substitute" if you're talking about the possible lack of calcium or vit. D in a milk substitute and you're worried about needing more in your diet for health reasons you should take a supplement. You should probably take a supplement anyway since I doubt you can drink enough milk to give you all of those two components on a daily basis. Or eat lots of broccoli which is loaded with calcium.

I think, too, just about everything you ingest has oil or fat in it. Even though it can't be detected by you it's there. It's a good thing because you need fat and oils to digest and absorb proteins.

Sorry I didn't get back to this sooner.

Dave, yes it is industry funded and, um, it's my industry. I know there have been all kinds of warnings against this, but I have to believe that the woman who did the study has a certain level of intellectual independence. The truth is, they take money out of every milk check for advertising and research and every time we send in our membership dues for Farm Bureau it goes to fund such groups and research.

I would suggest that if you need a milk substitute like Susie does, that her suggestions are very good. Otherwise, you might do well to stick to milk, cow or goat or etc. There are studies that show that the fat in cow's milk can help prevent certain cancers including colorectal cancers. And the good news is that all you have to do is drink it. I am a bit prejudice, but when I was a kid we all drank whole milk and, while there were a few heavy kids, most of us weren't. And you hardly ever heard the word cancer.

I'm afraid that I get a bit defensive, but there are groups out there that are in the business of lying about milk, and when brought up on it admit that they lie. There's a group of doctors that want nothing more than to destroy the dairy industry. There is much that needs improvement, and much that needs to be undone, but milk, if you can drink it, is a very nutritious and healthy food.

Not a dumb question because I'm asking....what milk is feta cheese made from?

traditionally sheep's milk, also goat's milk or a combination of both.

Thanks, Kathleen ... I just developed this auto-immune allergy almost overnight at 60 yrs old. I drank cow's milk nearly daily for decades... even the day before my first rash, swelling, itching, breathing issues.

I can eat sheep cheese without a problem... so far. I was so happy when I found I don't have a reaction! Apparently the enzymes of cow, sheep, goat are different. I think we've talked about this.''

I used to drink whole, kosher milk. Loved it. I knew a couple of medical doctors who espoused that whole milk was actually healthier than 2%, 1% or skim.... because of processing and chemicals in the "process".

Sorry, Kathleen. I didn't mean to offend. I just thought it was good to disclose the source of the information so that people don't get the impression that it is a neutral source. No offense intended, though.

I know, Dave. I came back a bit strong. Farmers seem to get caught in the middle of the media - either angels or demons. We are all a bit raw with it.

I personally don't think much of industry funded studies. Seriously who's going to say "we did a study and our product is a toxic danger?"

Well, I don't know how Kathleen feels on this, but it just galls me no end that the dairy farmers have to pay for promotion. That money is taken out of the milk check before we even see it. And that's about all I'm gonna say on the subject, or I'll get sent to the naughty chair in the corner............

You should have the freedom to "opt out".

Agreed Anna and Dave.

Bwahahahahaha................

I also think it needs to be said that the breed of the animal will affect the milk. Yes, the flavor of milk (and the meat) is based on the diet. (there is a huge flavor difference between grass fed beef and corn fed beef - same holds true for milk)

Jersey cattle have the highest butterfat (that I am aware of). drinking whole jersey milk will give you a different flavor than whole Holstein milk because of the differences in butterfat.

As for butterfat, yes, 1% is 1% butterfat. Whole milk in the store is 3.3%. Fresh from the cow - Holsteins seem to be around 3.5%+, with Jersey's going to the 4.5%+.(varies with the seasons also) Many of the family dairy farms that I know now have a mixture of Holstein & Jersey's - with the occasional Guernsey herd or Brown Swiss herd in there too.

Sheep milk is an up and coming industry, with most of the milk being processed into cheese.

A little sidebar to cheddar cheese - the difference in flavor is more likely due to the age of the cheddar cheese. Stop in a cheese store sometime and taste test the different aged cheddars - you will find a huge difference in 2 yr, vs 5 yr, vs 10 year. Perhaps that was part of the flavor difference that was noticed. I will admit that even my sister in California prefers our Wisconsin cheddar cheese to the "happy cows make better cheese, California cows are happy" ads from California. Sure, again diet will affect flavor too. I am sure the California cows eat different diets than our Wisconsin ones do. And I am guessing the French cattle again eat a different diet.

The automatic industry "promotion" money taken out, seems to occur in many of the farming industries - at least the ones I am involved in, including beef, pork, etc.

PS- I didn't know that about soy - even as a postmenopausal woman, I shouldn't drink that much of it? (perhaps this question needs to be in a different thread?) I drink it in a protein drink post exercise.
Jan

Just something here for you to mull around..........I was seeing a traditional Chinese medicine practitioner a couple of years ago (ok, maybe many of you think it is hocus-pocus.........but that's not the issue on this thread). She was big on diet; cheese & dairy products were on the "no" list. That year we went to France to visit my sister and attend her daughter's wedding. Of course, "cheese" is a meal course in itself there, and I tried some of every one on the table at every meal. Even the one with little worms on the rind......no, you don't eat the rind. At least *I* didn't. When we got back I told my practitioner that I was a bad girl, I ate lots of bread and cheese while in France. She said "oh, that is ok, they do things different there and it is NOT the same cheeses as here. They don't process it like here, it is more "natural". And the bread is different too, the flours are different and not like the breads here, processed to hell and gone. Altho I must admit that I never really did develop a taste for the traditional crusty French bread. I much prefer the Italian style with the soft crust. And there was some to be had.

I do agree, tho, that Wisconsin has the cheese market cornered. I LOVE to get 6 or 7 year old cheddar if I'm going to cook with it. To eat plain, not so much unless a good glass of wine with it.