Plant ID forum: wild plum ??

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Name: Ginger
Fountain, Florida (Zone 8b)
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gingin
Feb 24, 2012 3:09 PM CST
this would probably be easier if I had a pic of the leaves as well, but I think the tree is on it's last legs and at the moment doesn't have any leaves. I *think* it is a wild plum.
Thumb of 2012-02-24/gingin/f36534

Thumb of 2012-02-24/gingin/d37668

Thumb of 2012-02-24/gingin/b61771
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Name: josephine
Arlington, Texas (Zone 8a)
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frostweed
Feb 24, 2012 4:36 PM CST
Probably Mexican Plum, Prunus mexicana; also common and very pretty. Smiling
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Name: Lin
Florida (Zone 9b)
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plantladylin
Feb 24, 2012 4:47 PM CST
I agree, it looks like P. mexicana:

Fall Plum (Prunus mexicana)

http://aggie-horticulture.tamu.edu/ornamentals/natives/prunu...

http://www.google.com/search?q=prunus+mexicana&hl=en&prmd=im...

http://aggie-horticulture.tamu.edu/ornamentals/natives/prunu...
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Name: Janet Super Sleuth
Near Lincoln UK
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JRsbugs
Feb 24, 2012 5:41 PM CST
Does the bark match Prunus mexicana?

Mexican plum is a beautiful single-trunked, spring-flowering small tree with bark that eventually gets dark and striated, peeling off in patches.


http://aggie-horticulture.tamu.edu/ornamentals/natives/prunu...

The bark in this picture is smooth, and if it gets "dark and striated, peeling off in patches" it doesn't quite seem to fit the bark for this tree.

There's a photo of what the bark does look like when it becomes "dark and striated" on this site..

http://dendro.cnre.vt.edu/dendrology/syllabus/factsheet.cfm?...

Bark: Initially reddish-gray, smooth with numerous horizontal lenticels, later becoming rough with irregular ridges and exfoliating curling strips.


[Last edited by JRsbugs - Feb 24, 2012 5:43 PM (+)]
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Name: Ginger
Fountain, Florida (Zone 8b)
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gingin
Feb 26, 2012 11:58 AM CST
Think I'll wait on this one. Bark on young branches looks OK, but not the big trunk for Mexican plum. Just came in from looking at it again and after pulling other stuff away it is getting some leaves Smiling Once they're big enough for a photo-op Rolling on the floor laughing I'll post a pic.
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Name: Lin
Florida (Zone 9b)
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plantladylin
Feb 26, 2012 1:49 PM CST
Thumbs up Look forward to a photo of the foliage!

I've even been thinking possibly a variety of Malus (Crabapple): http://www.google.com/search?q=malus+angustifolia&hl=en&prmd...
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Name: Ginger
Fountain, Florida (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Plays in the sandbox Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Region: Gulf Coast Tip Photographer The WITWIT Badge
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gingin
Mar 1, 2012 4:01 PM CST
OK..here are young leaves. I found quite a few...guess the tree is doing better then I thought...just don't recall it blooming before getting leaves Shrug!
Thumb of 2012-03-01/gingin/7b6064

Thumb of 2012-03-01/gingin/e9a77b
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Name: Michele Roth
N.E. Indiana - Zone 5b
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chelle
Mar 1, 2012 4:49 PM CST
I think it's Prunus americana.

http://dendro.cnre.vt.edu/dendrology/syllabus2/factsheet.cfm...

If you scroll down and click on the link the says "See states reporting American plum" it's listed as being reported in Florida. Smiling
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Name: Janet Super Sleuth
Near Lincoln UK
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JRsbugs
Mar 1, 2012 6:17 PM CST
It does look like Prunus americana, but the description states:

Flower: White, 5 petals, 1 inch across, long filaments, yellow anthers, appear in small clusters in early spring with the leaves.


It could still be correct, but could the flowers come before the leaves?

I went through the Prunus on the USDA site, only those showing in Florida. There's one which is a possibility although it was difficult to find photos of, I got some by searching 'Flatwoods Plum', Prunus umbellata.

It flowers before the leaves, not sure about the leaf shape but they haven't opened fully so it's difficult to say.

http://www.sfrc.ufl.edu/4h/Flatwoods_plum/flatplum.htm

Flatwoods plum grows in mixed pine-hardwood forests, hammocks, coastal scrub, and swamps near streams and rivers.


The bark is thin, smooth, red brown to black in color, often becoming rough with age.


Flatwoods plum is a small tree that is generally less than 20' in height. Its crown is usually spreading and form is often crooked. It does not occur in thickets as a large shrub.


Twigs and leaves look close on the USDA ..

http://plants.usda.gov/java/profile?symbol=PRUM&photoID=prum...

The bark looks more like the thinner trunk, maybe you could compare it more closely Ginger. If it ever fruits then they could be a good clue too.

http://plants.usda.gov/java/profile?symbol=PRUM&photoID=prum...

I got a lot of results from the 'Flatwoods Plum' image search, the older bark is shown on this site ..

http://www.southeasternflora.com/view_flora.asp?plantid=291#

http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=Flatwoods+Plum&um=1&ie=UTF-...



[Last edited by JRsbugs - Mar 1, 2012 6:28 PM (+)]
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Name: Michele Roth
N.E. Indiana - Zone 5b
I'm always on my way out the door..
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chelle
Mar 1, 2012 6:58 PM CST
That last site was a good find, Janet!

I still think that the leaves and flower petals look wider, and rounder in umbellata than in Ginger's plant. Big Grin That's just MHO though. Whistling
http://www.ehow.com/list_7397953_plum-trees-south.html

These images show that sometimes americana blooms with the leaves.
http://www.prairiemoon.com/plants/bare-root/trees-shrubs-vin...

Ginger, about how tall is this plant?




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Name: Janet Super Sleuth
Near Lincoln UK
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JRsbugs
Mar 1, 2012 7:20 PM CST
More photos of Prunus americana ..

http://www.cas.vanderbilt.edu/bioimages/species/pram.htm

http://www.nrem.iastate.edu/class/for356/species/Prunus_amer...

Can you be sure the Prairie Moon nursery has the correct photo? Many don't, educational sites are the best to look for accuracy, but the photo shows leaves with flowers as you state Chelle, Ginger's tree has flowers without leaves.

Missouri Botanical Garden shows it with a few leaves .. and the leaves look broad.

http://www.missouribotanicalgarden.org/gardens-gardening/you...

Leaves also look broad on this drawing ..

http://www.holoweb.com/cannon/wildplum.htm

It's not easy to say which it is, fruits would help. Leaves need to fully develop also, but they can often vary a little.





[Last edited by JRsbugs - Mar 1, 2012 7:22 PM (+)]
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Name: Michele Roth
N.E. Indiana - Zone 5b
I'm always on my way out the door..
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Forum moderator Garden Sages Garden Ideas: Master Level Dog Lover Cottage Gardener
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chelle
Mar 1, 2012 7:50 PM CST
You're right, it is very difficult to tell. Big Grin

After working with this one, I'm almost ready to tackle the toughest ones around here! Hilarious!



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Name: Ginger
Fountain, Florida (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Plays in the sandbox Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Region: Gulf Coast Tip Photographer The WITWIT Badge
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Native Plants and Wildflowers Birds Plumerias Hummingbirder Dog Lover
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gingin
Mar 2, 2012 1:00 PM CST
ya'll are the best Lovey dubby I do not like research, so I'm sooo happy and thankful for those of you who do.

The tree is about 12-15 feet tall. blooms are small and in clusters. It does get fruit...small and dark purple/black. I keep a pad listing all the pics I've added to the DB (all from my yard as of right now) and have put a note to "shoot" the leaves again and also the fruit. Will star this thread for future. I'm kinda leaning towards umbellata because of the fruit pictured in the many links provided.

Go figure...when I looked again this morning I spotted another something blooming in the same "mess of a jungle". So soon you'll have something else to chew on Smiling Again thank you all for the time and links Group hug Group hug
Each cloud has a silver lineing if only you look for it.
Name: Michele Roth
N.E. Indiana - Zone 5b
I'm always on my way out the door..
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Forum moderator Garden Sages Garden Ideas: Master Level Dog Lover Cottage Gardener
Native Plants and Wildflowers Plant Identifier Organic Gardener Keeps Horses Hummingbirder Hosted a Not-A-Raffle-Raffle
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chelle
Mar 2, 2012 1:19 PM CST
It probably is umbellata. I think I read that they rarely go over 20', and the americana goes to 35'.

Thanks for the extra info. Big Grin
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Name: Ann ~Heat zn 9, Sunset
North Fl. (Zone 8b)
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flaflwrgrl
Mar 12, 2012 7:12 PM CST
Remember Ginger when we were talking about these about a month ago?

Here are some more links for y'all to chew on:

http://pinellas.fnpschapters.org/wildplums.html
I had decided at that time Ginger, the ones I was looking at here were P. umbellata but that doesn't mean I am right.
"Single trunk & the leaf blades tend to be flat (not partially folded in half)".

http://www.nsis.org/garden/family/rose.html

Ginger & I are on the same latitude in Fl. but she is maybe ?150/200 miles west of me?
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Name: Ginger
Fountain, Florida (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Plays in the sandbox Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Region: Gulf Coast Tip Photographer The WITWIT Badge
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Native Plants and Wildflowers Birds Plumerias Hummingbirder Dog Lover
Image
gingin
Apr 24, 2012 12:49 PM CST
OK...here are some older leaves
Thumb of 2012-04-24/gingin/2054fe

another pic..these look much different, but I followed both branches back to the same trunk...even made Bill double check for me...difference in age of the branches Confused Blinking
Thumb of 2012-04-24/gingin/cf9621
Each cloud has a silver lineing if only you look for it.
Name: Janet Super Sleuth
Near Lincoln UK
Charter ATP Member Organic Gardener Garden Photography Bee Lover Dragonflies Cat Lover
Butterflies Birds Plant Identifier I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Spiders!
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JRsbugs
Apr 24, 2012 1:20 PM CST
I would wait for fruits, if you get any.
Name: Ginger
Fountain, Florida (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Plays in the sandbox Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Region: Gulf Coast Tip Photographer The WITWIT Badge
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Native Plants and Wildflowers Birds Plumerias Hummingbirder Dog Lover
Image
gingin
Apr 24, 2012 1:50 PM CST
will do...it usually does fruit
Each cloud has a silver lineing if only you look for it.

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