Daylilies forum: Do you care about parentage?

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Name: Juli
(Zone 5b)
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daylily
Mar 19, 2012 7:14 PM CST
I have noticed a "trend" lately. It seems to me that more hybridizers are not giving parentage when they register plants. John Rice is one that does not seem to be listing any parentage any more.

I know that no matter how hard a person tries to keep tags on pods and keep seed straight - accidents happen. So there are times when you can't be sure of parentage.

I also know that there are many times that incorrect parentage is given at registration. Sometimes on purpose. (Yes, it does happen!) Sometimes the hybridizers just take a guess when they don't know.

I have heard that Pauline Henry collected all her seed and put in a coffee can - didn't give a darn about parentage.

Personally - I am far more apt to buy a daylily if the parentage is available. I have one friend who will not buy a plant that does not have parents listed.

So - is this **just me*** and not a big deal? How do you feel about this?
Name: Michele
Cantonment, FL zone 8b
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tink3472
Mar 19, 2012 8:03 PM CST
Well, to me it just depends. If it's just a garden flower I don't look at parentage, I just buy what I like. If I'm buying for hybridizing I do look at parentage but if the daylily has some qualities I'm looking for and there's no parentage listed I will go ahead and get it.
Sometimes the parentage isn't listed in the AHS database but it will be listed on the hybridizer's site. I don't know why they don't list it when registering it.

I think it was Fred who told me about a lady who would mix all of her pollen together then pollenate the daylilies. And I have heard of a person who just mixes all the seeds together. It may be the same person you mentioned.

When I go through my seeds, if one gets mixed up and I'm not sure what it is I will throw it out. I did keep one cross that the pollen parent is unknown because the tag came off in a storm.
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Name: Cary Peterson
Woods Cross (Zone 5b)
The Gardener at home and online.
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CaryPeterson
Mar 19, 2012 8:32 PM CST
Well if you don't know the parentage it becomes the first in that line. My first year is was bought at a wholesale without parentage listed. I would hope that if I picked out the best daylily out of 1000 it would qualify as an excellent specimen. Would you buy the daylily if it had the qualities you are looking for?

My Daylilies makes me happy!
[Last edited by daylily - Mar 19, 2012 10:31 PM (+)]
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Name: Rita
North Shore, Long Island, NY
Zone 6B
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Newyorkrita
Mar 19, 2012 8:33 PM CST
Don't care at all. Don't hybridize. Just buy what pleases me and works in my garden.
Name: Mona
Guntown, Ms (Zone 7b)
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monalisa18
Mar 19, 2012 9:37 PM CST
I like having the parents listed because this is one way I know if a plant is pod/pollen fertile. I also look to see what babies it has produces to see if I'm interested in making crosses myself.

I would buy and do buy plants that aren't known. I've lost tags, it's a pain but I'll usually grow the seed if it's a big plump seed. I'm sorry, I just can't help thinking that might be "THE ONE".

Blessings, Mona
[Last edited by daylily - Mar 19, 2012 10:31 PM (+)]
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Name: Juli
(Zone 5b)
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daylily
Mar 19, 2012 10:19 PM CST
Parentage is important because it can tell me what the chances are of a daylily performing in my area - and also a clue to hardiness.

This past fall was the first time in over 10 years that I have put seeds into the ground. But, during that time, I did consider parentage on many of the daylilies I brought into my garden.

It is interesting to hear other people's views on this!
[Last edited by daylily - Mar 19, 2012 11:15 PM (+)]
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Name: stephanie king
cut bank, MT z 3a-4b
Life is what you make it, so make i
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rebloomnut
Mar 19, 2012 11:18 PM CST
I like the parentage listed for the above reasons and also it helps in the learning process what can be passed down from which parents. There is a whole process and a lot to learn so I look at it as a part of that.
Name: Cynthia (Cindy)
Melvindale, Mi (Zone 5b)
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Hemlady
Mar 20, 2012 5:53 AM CST
I like to see parentage listed for a lot of the reasons already mentioned. When you hybridize you want to make sure you give the best qualities to your seedlings. I especially look at bud count and always look to see who passed that bud count on to its babies.
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Name: bb
north of boston on the coast
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Ideas: Level 1
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lilylady
Mar 20, 2012 6:12 AM CST
Depends on how much it costs!

And what my course of action will be - pretty flower or hybridizing for some affect. And I hardly ever by from a southern hybridizer because of course their 'stock' is different from what I am looking for. I've learned my lessons well.

I need hardy
I need tall (many are short especially if grown in a greenhouse on benches!)
I am not after all the ruffles and whistles
Mucho Ruffles don't open up well here with cool nights
I need to concentrate on higher bud count and branching since daylilies do not repeat here.
Most northern growers sell what does well in the north.
Mind you, I have just learned that there are some that do better in the south, and some that do better in the north, nothing against either.

Not that that they aren't just the prettiest darn things, I've just learned that I lose them. I have discovered that many northern growers with good snow cover can grow things that I can't. Also that just because a parent doesn't live here, the offspring might. Case in point. My Ta-Dah! and Aha! are from Skinwalker which doesn't live here (tried twice, I love it so much). But, crossed with Margo Reed's Creature of the Night (which is hardy) the offspring do fine, even in my so so winters and cut back and NO mulch!

So, I guess that knowing the parents are part of my collecting!


Name: Jan
Hustisford, WI
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Cat Lover Daylilies Dog Lover Irises Region: United States of America
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philljm
Mar 20, 2012 6:26 AM CST
At this point, no, when purchasing a plant, I don't care about parentage - yet. I am too new at this. Eventually, perhaps I will.

When buying seeds, yes I do. Because when I purchase seeds on the LA, I am buying them because of the cross - it is a way for me to get those expensive crosses into my garden.

Last summer I did a little bit of dabbing - just to see if I could. Purposely didn't record anything.. Also collected the seeds and some are germinating now. Again, just to see if I could. In the future, I will record the parentage. If I ever register anything, I will specify the parentage if I know it. To me, flower crosses, like recipes, are for everyone to know about. That's what makes them special. "Hiding" the parentage so that others can't reproduce that cross (I guess that's why some hybridizers do that, isn't it?) just shows arrogance.

It is interesting, because in the animal world (I have bred & raised cattle & sheep in a 'previous' life) one can not fully register an animal without knowing BOTH parents. Otherwise they are registered as a half blood, or not registered at all. Genetics has become huge in those industries, and being able to trace lines for generations is a big aspect of it. Granted, I am comparing apples to oranges, I know. But it has been interesting to me, to see the differences. ~Jan
Name: Cynthia (Cindy)
Melvindale, Mi (Zone 5b)
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Hemlady
Mar 20, 2012 6:36 AM CST
Skinwalker is tender in the north. I lost it the first winter I had it. I bought it again at the suggestion of a customer who said to put bricks around it in the winter so that the plant wouldn't heave and I did and it worked. It has now come through 2 winters and has increased nicely.
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Name: bb
north of boston on the coast
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Ideas: Level 1
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lilylady
Mar 20, 2012 7:07 AM CST
I tried that too Cindy! Both on Skinwalker and Desert Icicle. In raised beds surrounded by granite. So disappointing. You are lucky! I voted for it for the Stout even though it did not do well here. I know, living on the ocean that I have late winter freezes and thaws. Heck both of them had salt marsh hay on them as a test as well. Luckily I had used that first year's pollen on many things. I wanted a Skinwalker look in every color (still do)!

Darn, my helper didn't show up. So 'that' is why she didn't call me back. I was hoping she was just going to show after I left a message. I hate working in the garden all by myself.



Name: Cynthia (Cindy)
Melvindale, Mi (Zone 5b)
Hybridizer Irises Butterflies Charter ATP Member Birds Cat Lover
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Hemlady
Mar 20, 2012 7:20 AM CST
Wish I had a helper. My back just doesn't last long pulling weeds. I have to pace myself now. I do half hour or work, one hour of rest unfortunately. Otherwise I could be laid up for several days with my back if I don't. I wear a back brace and that helps some.
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Name: Jean
Hot Springs Vlg, AR, DeLand, F
Region: Florida Daylilies Garden Ideas: Master Level Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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rocklady
Mar 20, 2012 7:27 AM CST
I don't hybridize and I am mostly interested in what strikes my fancy. As someone interested in genealogy, I suppose I should be more interested in my plants' parentage!
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Name: Kim W
Md (Zone 6a)
More daylilies!!!!
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kimkats
Mar 20, 2012 8:00 AM CST
I believe parentage is very important if you are going to hybridize. If you are just after pretty then it would not matter. I have to wonder about a plant that doesn't have either parent listed. Why? I know tags can get lost but even last year where I have a lot of tags lost to rain and wind( no more paper tags here btw) I still knew which momma plant the pod came from. It would not 100 % preclude me from buying something that was to die for, but it would make me think twice before spending high dollars on something that I have zero info on.
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Name: Betty
Bakersfield, CA
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Betja
Mar 20, 2012 10:08 AM CST
I have a question -- Just by looking at a bloom, can you tell whether it is a dip or a tet? If a bloom has the more exotic edges (chicken fat, teeth and tendrils, double edges, etc.), does that always mean it's a tet? And is there some other way to tell, besides the more exotic edges, without having to examine pollen grains under a microscope? Because at this point, since hybridizing is now just about my main goal for getting new daylilies, whether it's a dip or tet would be my #1 criterion and I would love to find out if people could tell right away when looking at a flower whether it's a dip or tet. And knowing the parentage would certainly be one way to determine which one it is if the ploidy wasn't listed.

But if I believed it was a tet and the parentage wasn't listed, and the plant and flower still had one or more qualities I was looking for, I wouldn't hesitate to get it to try it out.

Betty
Name: bb
north of boston on the coast
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Ideas: Level 1
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lilylady
Mar 20, 2012 10:17 AM CST
When I first started dabbing pollen, I remembered that Ra Hansen did dips so I crossed her Tuscawilla Blackout every day. With dip pollen.

Well, it turned out to be her only TET (I think!) I do recall her saying, "I don't do tets". Ha!

That is like Curt Hanson registering Never Say Never, a dip, when he says he only does tets!

Sticking tongue out
Name: Rita
North Shore, Long Island, NY
Zone 6B
Charter ATP Member Seed Starter Tomato Heads I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Vegetable Grower Lover of wildlife (Raccoon badge)
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Newyorkrita
Mar 20, 2012 10:42 AM CST
This is not a comment about crossing pollen but I do want to say that I love dips. But when I buy, I don't care if it is a dip or tet. I only want beautiful flowers on great garden plants. I think that if I did do crossing then I would have made note of if each plant was dip pr tet by writing that on the back of the plant label marker were I write the hybridizers name. Daylily name in front, hybridizers name in back.
Name: Betty
Bakersfield, CA
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Birds The WITWIT Badge Region: United States of America Roses
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Betja
Mar 20, 2012 10:57 AM CST
I've made it a little easier for me by digging and potting up all my tets that I want to use for hybridizing, and I'm slowly incorporating all my dips into the garden. My sprinklers (mostly overhead sprinklers) run for a few minutes every day when it warms up, making it almost impossible for crosses to take -- I learned this the hard way last year! Plus I'm making lists of daylilies I especially want to use this year -- I'm always making lists -- and luckily I date them because I have LOTS of lists (almost an obsession with me!).

I've been getting a few tet conversions, too. I think the dips are really beautiful -- and I keep looking at and drooling over Elizabeth Shooter's beauties!

Betty
Name: Cynthia (Cindy)
Melvindale, Mi (Zone 5b)
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Hemlady
Mar 20, 2012 2:45 PM CST
I don't believe you can necessarily tell a dip or tet from appearance. Yes the chicken fat would definitely indicate a dip. I don't know of any dips yet with chicken fat. But if there is no chicken fat it would be very difficult. Tets do tend to have sturdier scapes and most of the tets I grow have larger fans.
Lighthouse Gardens

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