Orchids forum: a question for the experts out there...

Views: 1101, Replies: 13 » Jump to the end
Name: lindsey
wesley chapel, fl
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Image
sugarcane
Apr 12, 2012 1:43 PM CST
Why is it that these 2 plants looks so different?
Thumb of 2012-04-12/sugarcane/33c7c4 Thumb of 2012-04-12/sugarcane/e5218f
Blc. Rustic Spots and Blc. Emily Simmons 'Mendenhall'
Is it just the toss of the genetic dice?
lindsey
Name: Ursula
Fair Lawn NJ, zone 6b
Charter ATP Member Spiders! Native Plants and Wildflowers Region: Pennsylvania Greenhouse Cactus and Succulents
Forum moderator I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Photo Contest Winner: 2014 Ponds Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Region: New Jersey
Image
Ursula
Apr 12, 2012 4:30 PM CST

Moderator

Lindsey, not an expert here, but I am not sure I understand the question? You are comparing Blc Rustic Spots and Blc Emily Simmons and you are asking why those two look so different?
Surely you have already looked up their immediate parentage at the RHS website ( see below) and noticed different parents?

Rustic Spots
http://apps.rhs.org.uk/horticulturaldatabase/orchidregister/...
Emily Simmons
http://apps.rhs.org.uk/horticulturaldatabase/orchidregister/...

and here is Emily Simmons at "room genealogy" where you can see the whole parentage down to the primary cross. Please take a look!
http://www.orchid.or.jp/orchid/people/hashizume/kakeizu/Blc_...

and Rustic Spots
http://www.orchid.or.jp/orchid/people/hashizume/kakeizu/Blc_...

The parentage is totally different. If this was not your question, I certainly do apologize!


[Last edited by Ursula - Apr 12, 2012 4:33 PM (+)]
Give a thumbs up | Quote | Post #241345 (2)
Name: lindsey
wesley chapel, fl
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Image
sugarcane
Apr 12, 2012 5:10 PM CST
I had not looked up the parentage and I thank you for the links..which I will scrutinize shortly.
My assumption..( and we know what happens when you assume..!) was that ' Blc.' meant
they were all from the same parentage.
now off I go to scrutinize the links....thanks Ursula! I tip my hat to you.
lindsey
Name: Ursula
Fair Lawn NJ, zone 6b
Charter ATP Member Spiders! Native Plants and Wildflowers Region: Pennsylvania Greenhouse Cactus and Succulents
Forum moderator I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Photo Contest Winner: 2014 Ponds Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Region: New Jersey
Image
Ursula
Apr 12, 2012 5:17 PM CST

Moderator

You are welcome! Smiling
Name: lindsey
wesley chapel, fl
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Image
sugarcane
Apr 13, 2012 4:59 PM CST
I looked at those links and see how different the two plants are, but am still confused Confused
If I have a Labrador Retriever dog and you have one we both know they are similar, brown, black, yellow and usually blocky build.
If we have standard Poodles, we know they are incredibly smart, with a curly coat, and a pointy nose.
If we have Labradoodles we know they usually have a curly coat, are less blocky built and basically have the best of both breeds.
I guess I was thinking that ALL Blc plants came from the same ancestry and so would be more similar.
I have sooo much to learn!
lindsey
Name: Carol
Santa Ana,Ca. (Zone 10b)
Sunset zone 22
Charter ATP Member Hummingbirder Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Orchids Region: California Plant Identifier
Image
ctcarol
Apr 13, 2012 5:54 PM CST
Hilarious! If you ever look up Catts, Laelias, and Brassias on http://www.orchidspecies.com/, you will find there are a LOT more of them, in all sizes, than there are Labradors or poodles, and it takes a real expert to know which have the dominant traits.
Name: Ursula
Fair Lawn NJ, zone 6b
Charter ATP Member Spiders! Native Plants and Wildflowers Region: Pennsylvania Greenhouse Cactus and Succulents
Forum moderator I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Photo Contest Winner: 2014 Ponds Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Region: New Jersey
Image
Ursula
Apr 13, 2012 6:53 PM CST

Moderator

Lindsey, looking up Mendel might help you ?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mendelian_inheritance
http://anthro.palomar.edu/mendel/mendel_1.htm
http://www.ndsu.edu/pubweb/~mcclean/plsc431/mendel/mendel1.h...

And if you are sick and tired reading about Garden Peas, just picture the members of your own family. Smiling

Name: Kathy
Western MA

Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Dog Lover Region: Northeast US Orchids Irises
Enjoys or suffers cold winters
Image
boojum
Apr 14, 2012 5:24 AM CST
The way I think about it is, Blc. is a combo of alliances, not particular plants. It alerts me to the three influences involved. But then if I think about each alliance, I know that there is Laelia purpurata and Laelia liliputiana. They are vastly different. So the Blc. label is not enough info for me to know about how that plant will look.

On the other hand, I am lately starting to look at a plant and use the appearance to notice who a specific parent plant might be. But working from the label would be impossible for me.

I hope I haven't confused you further.
Name: lindsey
wesley chapel, fl
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Image
sugarcane
Apr 14, 2012 2:45 PM CST
Thank you all, for your input...I am glad I do not have to take any tests or remember any
factoids.My poor brain, is like a VERY small closet and if I bring in anything new to the
closet...something already in there MUST go. So I will be happy with the fact that I can get
so many beautiful plants to bloom..despite my ignorance and ineptitude. . . and maybe, in
baby steps some of this very cool information will stick! I'm all ears!
lindsey
Name: Carol
Santa Ana,Ca. (Zone 10b)
Sunset zone 22
Charter ATP Member Hummingbirder Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Orchids Region: California Plant Identifier
Image
ctcarol
Apr 14, 2012 6:44 PM CST
Lindsey, " don't worry, be happy", the things that are important to you will stick.
Name: Kathy
Western MA

Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Dog Lover Region: Northeast US Orchids Irises
Enjoys or suffers cold winters
Image
boojum
Apr 14, 2012 8:40 PM CST
I agree
Name: lindsey
wesley chapel, fl
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Image
sugarcane
Apr 15, 2012 12:00 PM CST
Like my name and address? Rolling on the floor laughing Rolling on the floor laughing Rolling on the floor laughing
lindsey
Name: Elaine
South Sarasota, Florida (Zone 9b)
The one constant in life is change
Cat Lover Master Gardener: Florida Tropicals Multi-Region Gardener Vegetable Grower Region: Florida
Herbs Orchids Birds Garden Ideas: Level 2 Garden Sages Celebrating Gardening: 2015
Image
dyzzypyxxy
Apr 23, 2012 3:28 PM CST
Lindsay, I'm a relative orchid newbie, and the whole name thing baffles me, I must say. But my interpretation of your question is, why is one Blc. tall with long leaves and another Blc. is shorter with rounded leaves, right? Maybe I can try for a more basic explanation.

So, there are thousands of different Brassias, Laelias, and Cattleyas, as I'm sure you know. Some are big, some are small and they flower in lots of colors. So if one cross had parents that were small plants, you'd expect to get a small plant. The other cross may have had larger parent plants with longer style leaves, thus you got the taller traits.

Going with your dog analogy, if you had a really BIG Lab crossed with a standard poodle, you'd expect to get a really big Labradoodle. If you had a small Lab crossed with a mid-size poodle (if that is possible) you'd expect a Labradoodle that might only be knee-high. But you might get a bigger dog if one of the grandparents was big. Even if you had two puppies from the same parents, they aren't always the same size, shape or temperament unless they're identical twins.

It's the same with orchids. I've read that when they breed an orchid, they can't get the name registered until they've crossed it enough times that the traits (size, leaf shape, flower color and form) come true with every plant. Another reason that named, registered orchids are so expensive - there's a lot that goes into the breeding, and years of growth to get it to breed true, then to a size that you can buy it in bloom.

Elaine

"Success is stumbling from failure to failure with no loss of enthusiasm." –Winston Churchill
Name: Ursula
Fair Lawn NJ, zone 6b
Charter ATP Member Spiders! Native Plants and Wildflowers Region: Pennsylvania Greenhouse Cactus and Succulents
Forum moderator I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Photo Contest Winner: 2014 Ponds Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Region: New Jersey
Image
Ursula
Apr 23, 2012 8:32 PM CST

Moderator

"they can't get the name registered until they've crossed it enough times that the traits (size, leaf shape, flower color and form) come true with every plant. "

Hmm, I am sure you simply phrased that a little funky?

« Garden.org Homepage
« Back to the top
« Forums List
« Orchids forum
You must first create a username and login before you can reply to this thread.

Today's site banner is by dirtdorphins and is called "Dianthus 'Nyewood Cream'"