I am sure someone has answered this question before. How important when starting seeds do you place under light? At the beginning or after you see them growing?

I do it after I see them start to grow. They seem to really take off then.

I usually wait until I see the first one or two seedlings emerge. Then I supplirment the daylight hours with added light , especially on overcast days and use a cheap intermatic timer for on/off, etc. Everything goes dark at night. Now thats how I do it, but there are others here who are much more professional than I. But it works for me.

Mine don't get appreciable light until the first sprout is visible.
Dr. Norman Deno has done extensive studies on many species of seeds, testing for germination in different temperature regimes, light or dark, dried or fresh seed. He tested all of these species and none required light to germinate.

Lilium albanicum
Lilium alexandrae
Lilium amabile
Lilium amabile luteum
Lilium auratum
Lilium canadense flavum
Lilium canadense v. editorum
Lilium candidum
Lilium catesbaei
Lilium caucasicum
Lilium centifolium (hybrids)
Lilium centifolium x henryi
Lilium cernuum
Lilium chalcedonicum
Lilium ciliatum
Lilium columbianum
Lilium concolor
Lilium concolor v. partheneion
Lilium davidi
Lilium debile
Lilium formosanum
Lilium grayi
Lilium humboldtii v. ocellatum
Lilium kelleyanum
Lilium martagon
Lilium martagon album
Lilium maximowiczii
Lilium michauxii
Lilium michiganense
Lilium monadelphum
Lilium nanum
Lilium nepalense
Lilium nobilissimum
Lilium occidentale
Lilium pardalinum
Lilium pardalinum v. wigginsii
Lilium parryi
Lilium parvum
Lilium philadelphicum
Lilium pomponium
Lilium ponticum
Lilium pulchellum
Lilium pumilum
Lilium pyrenaicum
Lilium regale
Lilium sachalinense
Lilium shastense
Lilium souliei
Lilium superbum
Lilium szovitsianum
Lilium tennuifolium
Lilium tsingtauense
Lilium washingtonianum

Rick, was there any data on temperature. I've always done mine at about 75 F +/- 2 or 3 degrees. I think I got that from an old Jan de Graaff book then. But now some say anywhere from 65 to 75 F is recommended (?).

Dr. Deno did standardized testing. Regarding temp regimes, his aim was to determine whether a seed required warm or cold conditioning or combinations thereof. He chose 70F for the warm, 40F for the cold. In the data below:
70 = germinated at 70F
40 = germinated at 40F
40-70 = 3 months at 40F, then germinated at 70F
70-40 =3 months at 70F, then germinated at 40F
70-40-70 = 3 months at 70, then 3 months at 40, then germinated at 70F
D = dark required
L = light required
DS = dry stored
OT = outside temps
comment = specific information in book (I can look it up if you are interested)

when there are multiple entries for the same species, he had different accessions of seeds, and they performed differently.
-
Lilium albanicum 70-40
Lilium alexandrae 70
Lilium amabile 70
Lilium amabile luteum 70
Lilium auratum 70D
Lilium auratum 70
Lilium canadense flavum 70
Lilium canadense v. editorum 70
Lilium canadense v. editorum 70D
Lilium candidum 70
Lilium catesbaei comment
Lilium caucasicum 70-40
Lilium centifolium (hybrids) DS 3 y = dead
Lilium centifolium (hybrids) 70-70
Lilium centifolium x henryi comment
Lilium cernuum 70
Lilium chalcedonicum 70-40-70
Lilium ciliatum 70-40-70
Lilium columbianum 40-70-40-70-40
Lilium concolor 70
Lilium concolor v. partheneion 70-40
Lilium davidi 70
Lilium debile 70-40
Lilium formosanum 70
Lilium grayi 70
Lilium humboldtii v. ocellatum 70-40
Lilium kelleyanum 70-40
Lilium martagon DS 3 y = dead
Lilium martagon 70D
Lilium martagon 40-70
Lilium martagon album 70
Lilium maximowiczii 70
Lilium michauxii 70-40
Lilium michauxii 70D-40
Lilium michiganense 70
Lilium monadelphum 70-40-40
Lilium nanum 70
Lilium nepalense 70
Lilium nobilissimum 40
Lilium occidentale 40
Lilium occidentale 40
Lilium pardalinum OT
Lilium pardalinum OT-40-70
Lilium pardalinum v. wigginsii 70-40
Lilium parryi 70-40
Lilium parvum OT-40-70
Lilium philadelphicum comment
Lilium pomponium 70-40
Lilium ponticum 70-40-70
Lilium pulchellum 70
Lilium pumilium 70
Lilium pumilum 70D
Lilium pyrenaicum DS 4 y = dead
Lilium pyrenaicum OT
Lilium regale DS 3 y = dead
Lilium regale 70
Lilium sachalinense 70
Lilium shastense OT-40-70
Lilium souliei
Lilium superbum 70
Lilium superbum 70
Lilium szovitsianum 70D-40-70
Lilium szovitsianum 70
Lilium szovitsianum 70D
Lilium tennuifolium 70
Lilium tsingtauense 70-40-70
Lilium washingtonianum 70-40-70

Rick; can I copy this list? I would like to send it to a friend.

Dr. Deno's work on germination trials has been made public through U.S. Department of Agriculture on the internet. His books can be downloaded here:
http://hdl.handle.net/10113/41...
http://hdl.handle.net/10113/41...
http://hdl.handle.net/10113/41...

The listing I gave here is part of an indexing of Dr. Deno's books by Tom Clothier in his site, where you can download the entire index file that includes work on thousands of different species seeds:
http://tomclothier.hort.net/pa...

If all you are interested in is Lilium, then by all means, go ahead and copy my posting.

Thanks Rick. Good information. Having trouble opening/view. I'd like to more: % germination and observational comments, etc. I'll keep trying; I'll get it eventually.

The view/open link is for downloading the pdf file. (Agreed, it is very misleading.) I know this because my browser is set to always ask where I want a file to be downloaded to, and when I click on the view/open I get that inquiry box. You have probably been downloading a file each to you clicked on the "view/open", and have many copies in your download folder. Go there and click on the appropriate pdf file. The first link I gave will download a file with this name:
CAT10633450.pdf

If you don't know where your download folder is, you can search for the aforementioned file via start>>search>>files and folders

Oh, I got it--it downloaded. Now I can open and dig thru it! Thanks!

My calender alerted me to place the L. szovitsianum seeds into cold for 90 days.
While doing so I could see in the baggie at least one seed had started a small mass of roots. Well that is something.
Will I need to check them periodicly, or will they most often wait for the warm spell to send up that bit of green?
Temp in the half fridge stays around 36°.

A "small mass of roots"? Wow, that's more than I ever got, which was a single root per seed, and perhaps a few tiny root hairs. Bravo! And congratulations!

Temp should be 32-40F. Approximately. I don't think the bulbs will sprout green in the fridge at all, unless you leave them in for longer than 90 days. But they should be rarin' to go as soon as you bring them into warmth. I'm talking days here, and you will probably see sprouts starting if they are still in the baggie where you can inspect them closely.

You will want to check them periodically for moisture (too much or too little), especially in the beginning.

I know ive got a few, along with a mass of other rare seeds, but im leaving them alone and just giving them a bit of food now and then,.have sighted little bulbs from Ed Mcraes-Shuksan seeds, tonight,,..,whoaaa!,.,..,am having more luck with these, than asiatic cross seed

Moved the sovitsianum out of cool storage today. Out of ten seeds I now have six tiny bulbs.
Slow but fun.
So if they continue in this positive way how much "summer" under the lights should I give them?
Seems like I could have timed the seasons better.

Chickensonmars said:Moved the sovitsianum out of cool storage today. Out of ten seeds I now have six tiny bulbs.
Slow but fun.
So if they continue in this positive way how much "summer" under the lights should I give them?
Seems like I could have timed the seasons better.

congratulations, Brian! Yes, you could have timed the season better, but should be fine. Keep them going and growing for as long as they want, through all next summer, if they manage. My guess is that they will want to go dormant much earlier, possibly (probably?) by months. Then just put them in the fridge for a longer winter period to get them in sync with outside. I used to grow L. szovitsianum in full sun, and most years it went dormant in mid August. Never seemed to hurt it a bit.

Come to think of it, being such tiny plants to start out, you may find that they only grow for 2-3 months this first growing season. If they go dormant then, you will be able to put them in the fridge for 2.5-3 months and take them out for their normal, in sync growing season.

And still moving along, first to emerge, I swear this was not up yesterday.



I must admit to a fair bit of fist-pumping victory dance. I had been thinking this wouldn't happpen.

Bravo! That's pretty hefty for a first leaf so far, even for the first leaf from a tiny seed bulb. Although, the monadelphum and szovitsianum species do seem to grow larger tiny seed bulbs than other Lilium spp., in my experiences so far. I'm pretty sure I remember that they only grow one leaf this first season above ground.

How deep is the pot, and how deep did you plant the seed bulb?

Such a simple pleasure this gardening suff can provide.
But if I mention this plant one more time the wife might scream.

Two+ inches below the bulb, just a light quarter inch above. Should be able to put on near an inch more as needed.

When I first started growing lilies, I started with pots only 3.5 inches high. (I had no one to council me.) They did fine, but when I went to transplant, Usually found the bulbs sitting at the bottom of the pots. So since then, I use a minimum of 5 inch deep pots. Exceptions are when I plant seeds that I think have little chance of viability. Then, because I can't spare are that room and extra soil, they go into 4 inch deep pots.