Propagation forum: New guy needs help...

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drewtoby
Apr 24, 2012 5:15 PM CST
Welcome! I'll start by welcoming myself Blinking Just kidding. Anyways, I'm new here and to propagation, but have taken care of a garden for most of my life.

I have rooting hormone now, although I have not used it yet (as it is a violation of federal law to sell plants made with it). I am propagating to fill some nice planters I have made to include in the sell. So, I am on my second method (described below) to work around this issue.

I am currently replicating blue junipers, and am attempting to root a fukien tea (and succulents) with cinnamon and chopped willow leaves. Before I tried sugar water and wet soil, but all I could do was make most of my cuttings rot. I took my remaining plants and am now trying to use willow leaves/shoots and cinnamon. It has been 3 weeks (including the sugar water days), and I have no signs of roots for anything but a couple of the blue junipers.

What else can I do for the succulents/bonsai?


I would use rooting hormone, but I plan to sell the cuttings with my planters/pots... Any ideas? I am also trying to air propagate my fukien tea by wrapping a scarred lower half with cut willow leaves/shoots, and left leaves at the top, but have only done so yesterday so I will not know if this will work for a while.
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[Last edited by drewtoby - Apr 24, 2012 5:16 PM (+)]
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Name: Karen
Cincinnati, Oh (Zone 6a)
Forum moderator I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Cut Flowers Winter Sowing Charter ATP Member Seed Starter
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kqcrna
Apr 24, 2012 5:23 PM CST
Welcome to ATP.

I'm not that knowledgeable about propagation methods of those things. This might be too obvious but have you tried just sticking your succulents in damp (not wet) potting mix and sticking the pot in a plastic bag? What kind of succulents are you trying to propagate?

Karen

drewtoby
Apr 24, 2012 6:13 PM CST
Echeveria and Haworthia cymbiformis. They are in currently damp soil now, but the last time I stuck it in a bag and zipped it up: that is how they rotted Confused . I think I waterlogged it! Should I try again with the bag upside down over the soil so moisture can escape and prevent water logging? The current echeveria cuttings are a little wilted (3 days ago I took the cutting). But the Haworthia cymbiformis are doing fine! I have one that is mushy from the bagged soil, but it seems to be alive! The newer ones are doing great.

Thanks for your response!
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[Last edited by drewtoby - Apr 24, 2012 6:22 PM (+)]
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Name: Karen
Cincinnati, Oh (Zone 6a)
Forum moderator I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Cut Flowers Winter Sowing Charter ATP Member Seed Starter
Echinacea Plant and/or Seed Trader Region: Ohio Region: United States of America Butterflies Hummingbirder
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kqcrna
Apr 24, 2012 6:20 PM CST
Sounds like the soil might be too wet. Confused Most succulents like barely damp conditions, but not wet.

Some succulent type things will root if after you cut it, you let it sit for a day to callous over.

Like I said, I'm no expert. I'm just mentioning some tricks from my (very limited) experience. Someone else more experienced with those particular plants will hopefully come along and chime in.

Karen

drewtoby
Apr 24, 2012 6:23 PM CST
I did that with my second cuttings, and they are doing much, MUCH better than the first ones that did not callous!
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Name: Karen
Cincinnati, Oh (Zone 6a)
Forum moderator I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Cut Flowers Winter Sowing Charter ATP Member Seed Starter
Echinacea Plant and/or Seed Trader Region: Ohio Region: United States of America Butterflies Hummingbirder
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kqcrna
Apr 24, 2012 6:48 PM CST
Cool. Hopefully this will work out better.

It does help to try different methods. Sometimes it just seems to be a matter of trial and error.

Karen
Name: Karen
Cincinnati, Oh (Zone 6a)
Forum moderator I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Cut Flowers Winter Sowing Charter ATP Member Seed Starter
Echinacea Plant and/or Seed Trader Region: Ohio Region: United States of America Butterflies Hummingbirder
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kqcrna
Apr 24, 2012 6:52 PM CST
Also, notice we have a cactus and succulents forum. Folks there might have suggestions, too.
http://garden.org/forums/view/cacti/

Karen

drewtoby
Apr 25, 2012 7:22 PM CST
Thanks!
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Name: Rick Corey
Everett WA 98204 (Zone 8a)
Sunset Zone 5. Koppen Csb. Eco 2f
I helped beta test the first seed swap Plant and/or Seed Trader Seed Starter Region: Pacific Northwest Photo Contest Winner: 2014 Vegetable Grower
Avid Green Pages Reviewer Garden Ideas: Master Level Garden Sages I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! I helped plan and beta test the plant database. Charter ATP Member
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RickCorey
Apr 26, 2012 5:20 PM CST
I never knew there was any law against using rooting hormone, or selling cuttings that had been dipped in it.

It seems like an unenforceable law after the first few weeks or months. Root it, wash the soil and remaining powder off, repot it.

I thought the law prohibited asexual propagation of certain "patented" plants, usually tagged "propagation prohibited". If the plant variety is tagged "PP", I think it is unlawful to propagate it asexually (cuttings) with or without hormones, for sale or your own private use.

I always wondered what "they" would do to a PP plant that reproduced itself asexually by runners: fine it? Lock it up in a smaller pot for 5-10 years?

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sewNsow
Apr 30, 2012 4:37 PM CST
Hello Drewtoby,I seriously doubt it is unlawful to sell plants that have been cloned using hormones. I did a search on various rooting agents & several even mentioned increasing your plants to sell at flea markets & plant sales.Could you be confusing the "Asexual propagation unlawful" term on the tag ?I think you were lucky to see rooting action on the junipers in 3 weeks.Some things take longer than 3 weeks. I don't know what Fluken Tea is.I think you would need a rooting mix with coarse sand or perlite for good drainage for succulents & be very careful about keeping them under plastic.I would get some Clonex Gel & try this.It should tell on the container if it shouldn't be used on certain plants. Keep trying! I've had failures & then tried again a little later & things took right off with little or no wilting.
Good luck,
Doris
Name: Jay
Nederland, Texas (Zone 9a)
Region: Texas Region: Gulf Coast Charter ATP Member I helped beta test the first seed swap I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
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Horntoad
Apr 30, 2012 5:04 PM CST
sewNsow said:Hello Drewtoby,I seriously doubt it is unlawful to sell plants that have been cloned using hormones.
Doris


This it what is says on the label of Greenlight Rooting Hormone.
" It is a violation of Federal Law to use this product in a manner inconsistent with it's labeling. Not for use with plants being grown for sale or other commercial use or for commercial seed production or for research purposes."


wildflowersoftexas.com
texasnatureonline.com


Name: Rick Corey
Everett WA 98204 (Zone 8a)
Sunset Zone 5. Koppen Csb. Eco 2f
I helped beta test the first seed swap Plant and/or Seed Trader Seed Starter Region: Pacific Northwest Photo Contest Winner: 2014 Vegetable Grower
Avid Green Pages Reviewer Garden Ideas: Master Level Garden Sages I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! I helped plan and beta test the plant database. Charter ATP Member
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RickCorey
Apr 30, 2012 5:24 PM CST
>> " It is a violation of Federal Law to use this product in a manner inconsistent with it's labeling.""

I've seen that on slug bait and insecticicdes.

"Not for use ..." doesn't sound quite as draconian. More like the vendor's legal department applying CYA: "you can't sue us for ANYthing, because we labelled it "not for any plausible use whatsoever".

Maybe it contains something "not for human consumption" or "determined by the sate of California to be uncool" and they labelled it to preclude any regulatory agency anywhere having any jurisidction.

And I'm baffled as to why something would be labelled "not for research purposes."

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sewNsow
May 1, 2012 10:47 AM CST
Well then,I sure won't buy any Greenlight rooting hormone. Or then again maybe I will ,just for the heck of it.That is when I get ready for a plant sale.
It does not say anything about using on plants for selling on my Shultz's Take Root powder.I will be looking at other labels when I get to the store.
sewNsow

drewtoby
May 4, 2012 7:19 PM CST
Thanks for the replys! As of now I am using honey, cinnamon, water, and willow leaves to help with my propagation. I'll look into Shultz's Take Root powder too.
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Name: Louise
East Texas, zones 7b/8a
Garden Ideas: Level 1
louise
Nov 11, 2012 8:46 PM CST
Just a suggestion - use a few drops of hydrogen peroxide
in the water used in your rooting systems.

LM
Name: Rick Corey
Everett WA 98204 (Zone 8a)
Sunset Zone 5. Koppen Csb. Eco 2f
I helped beta test the first seed swap Plant and/or Seed Trader Seed Starter Region: Pacific Northwest Photo Contest Winner: 2014 Vegetable Grower
Avid Green Pages Reviewer Garden Ideas: Master Level Garden Sages I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! I helped plan and beta test the plant database. Charter ATP Member
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RickCorey
Nov 13, 2012 6:57 PM CST
These people seemed to be well informed about Hydrogen Peroxide, and they adviocate using it more dilute than many other people do.
http://www.using-hydrogen-peroxide.com/gardening-with-hydrog...

To water or mist plants, to soak seeds, or to add to water used to wash sprouts: - - - 0.1% H2O2
1 ml of 3% peroxide diluted with 1 ounce of water
1.5 tsp 3% peroxide diluted with 1 cup of water
1 tablespoon 3% peroxide diluted with 1 pint of water
1/2 cup 3% peroxide diluted with 1 gallon of water


To Spray on sick or fungusy plants: dbl-strength - - - - - 0.2% H2O2
2 tablespoons of 3% peroxide diluted with 1 pint of water
1/4 cup of 3% peroxide diluted with 1 quart of water

They are also so kind as to point out that there are TWO kinds of H2O2 for sale: normal 3% peroxide and ten-times-as-strong 35% Food Grade Peroxide!

They say:
"10% hydrogen peroxide is recommended as a weed killer
-- in other words it will kill your plants at that concentration.... "

I also learned from them: hair-bleach or cosmetic peroxide uses a different labelling system:
V10 ~ 3%
V20 ~ 6%
V30 ~ 9 %
V40 ~ 12%
[Last edited by RickCorey - Nov 13, 2012 6:58 PM (+)]
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Name: Louise
East Texas, zones 7b/8a
Garden Ideas: Level 1
louise
Nov 14, 2012 12:12 AM CST
http://educate-yourself.org
This website is a help to understanding the use of hydrogen peroxide.
I have used both the 3% and the 35% ( which I bought from the health
food store for $19.95 a pint.

Louise
Name: Lanakila Alexander
Holly Springs, North Carolina (Zone 7b)
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lanakilaalexand
Nov 14, 2012 3:26 PM CST
The message on the rooting hormone applies to trademarked plants. For example, if you buy 'Wave' petunias those are trademarked by the company. In fact, Wave is the brand name just like Kraft is the brand name of many food products. You can sell petunias that spread like that, but you cannot call them 'wave petunias'. Think of it like the labels you see on generic or store brand products; compare to 'name brand'.
Name: Tom Cagle
SE-OH (Zone 6a)
Old, fat, and gardening in OH
Coppice
Nov 16, 2012 2:51 PM CST
Propagating non-food items, um, like bonsai should exempt you from food-born contamination.

I an also going to concur with others that point out contraventions against cloning patented plants. Your conceince may be your guide.

I'm taking cuttings of bald cypress each spring for a local forestry project.

I use rootone every single time...
Name: Rick Corey
Everett WA 98204 (Zone 8a)
Sunset Zone 5. Koppen Csb. Eco 2f
I helped beta test the first seed swap Plant and/or Seed Trader Seed Starter Region: Pacific Northwest Photo Contest Winner: 2014 Vegetable Grower
Avid Green Pages Reviewer Garden Ideas: Master Level Garden Sages I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! I helped plan and beta test the plant database. Charter ATP Member
Image
RickCorey
Nov 16, 2012 8:39 PM CST
SOME one,
on SOME site,
speculated or knew that some companies say "not to be used for XYZ"
because there are federal regulations about products used for those purposes. Maybe only labelling regulations, but I think maybe licensing and record-keeping regulations as well.

Some experience with labeling requirements for software documents, indicates that, when you start to wander into the area of ITAR or EAR regulations, just figuring out WHAT wording is required can give you gray hairs or slow you down for weeksyou.

I can easily believe that it is cheaper to label something used by hobbyists, researchers and commercial growers "for hobby use only", than to figure out and comply with a forest of regulations.

Kind of like a vendor who "handles" liability issues by stating that safe use of the product requires NEVER OPENING THE CAN.
[Last edited by RickCorey - Jul 16, 2013 1:11 PM (+)]
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