Lilies forum: Tulip Color Breaking Virus?

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Name: Lorn (Roosterlorn)
S.E Wisconsin (Zone 5b)
Lilies Seed Starter Pollen collector Bee Lover Region: Wisconsin
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Roosterlorn
May 4, 2012 10:35 AM CST
Here's a condition that no one likes to see. Because it is easily spread by ahpids and nibbling baby bunnies and such and will eventually cause degradation and death to any plant it infects. This particular plant is a 'Garden Angel' and will have to be destroyed. It showed signs of it last year but I attributed it to cool wet weather when it did, in fact, recover to a nice uniform green with nice shaped flowers--in other words appeared normal. This is one condition I can't take a chance on. The sudden appearance of several new bublets last year may also be a clue of a plants frugel instinctive sense to try and survive--but I'm afraid this is one it can't outrun. Edited to add plant with flowers last year.


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[Last edited by Roosterlorn - May 4, 2012 11:01 AM (+)]
Give a thumbs up | Quote | Post #252374 (1)
Name: Connie
Willamette Valley OR (Zone 8a)
Forum moderator Hybridizer Region: Pacific Northwest Lilies Sempervivums Sedums
Pollen collector I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Database Moderator Charter ATP Member Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Identifier
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pardalinum
May 4, 2012 10:54 AM CST

Moderator

A fine example of virus infection. Thanks for posting, Lorn!
Name: Lorn (Roosterlorn)
S.E Wisconsin (Zone 5b)
Lilies Seed Starter Pollen collector Bee Lover Region: Wisconsin
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Roosterlorn
May 4, 2012 11:35 AM CST
Connie, everybody admires a mixed lily bed like this thats pretty much in bloom from beginning of the season to the very end, but I call it a recipe for disaster as well. I do a lot of change up/ rotation thru this garden and as such it presents some real challenges, most of which I can handle.

Most of us know that lilies can host one or two viruses and still live and bloom normally. Its when it comes down with a third one or a stress that-- 'does them in' to stuff like this. Apparently, there's another bulb from a more recent purchase in here nearby that carries another virus sucessfully and one that the Garden Angel didn't have and it caught it. And this works both ways, viruses are reciprocal--which makes it all the more necessary for removal--better sooner than later.
Name: Polly Kinsman
Hannibal, NY (Zone 6a)

Charter ATP Member Region: United States of America I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Irises Lilies
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PollyK
May 4, 2012 6:25 PM CST
Thank you for posting that, Lorn.

Connie, could we put that in the database somehow?
Name: Connie
Willamette Valley OR (Zone 8a)
Forum moderator Hybridizer Region: Pacific Northwest Lilies Sempervivums Sedums
Pollen collector I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Database Moderator Charter ATP Member Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Identifier
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pardalinum
May 4, 2012 8:06 PM CST

Moderator

It would have to go in the general area, which is ok with me. (Some thumbs up will move it towards the top where it will be easier to notice.)

We could also use some pictures of color break in blooms.
Name: Polly Kinsman
Hannibal, NY (Zone 6a)

Charter ATP Member Region: United States of America I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Irises Lilies
Seller of Garden Stuff
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PollyK
May 4, 2012 8:07 PM CST
I think that's a good idea.

Lorn, would you like to put it in there, and then it will have your name on it. I'll thumbs up it.
Name: Rick R.
near Minneapolis, MN zone 4a
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Sages The WITWIT Badge Garden Photography Region: Minnesota Plant Identifier
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Leftwood
May 4, 2012 8:44 PM CST
A virus, most probable.

But Tulip Color Breaking virus? I don't know how you can tell that, and it is most probably NOT that particular one. It should go in the data base as virused, but which virus is unknown (and really not very important with lilies, IMO).
Name: Connie
Willamette Valley OR (Zone 8a)
Forum moderator Hybridizer Region: Pacific Northwest Lilies Sempervivums Sedums
Pollen collector I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Database Moderator Charter ATP Member Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Identifier
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pardalinum
May 4, 2012 8:53 PM CST

Moderator

Agree. Usually when I see TBV the foliage looks just swell.
Name: Lorn (Roosterlorn)
S.E Wisconsin (Zone 5b)
Lilies Seed Starter Pollen collector Bee Lover Region: Wisconsin
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Roosterlorn
May 4, 2012 8:53 PM CST
Yes, I'll get some in over the week end. I'll take several more pics in the morning and send you both some in tree mail for review first; then we'll decide which ones go in. The flowers of this plant never were deformed last summer--only a slightly lower bud count than usual.

I do have a photo of color breaking in a Maywood taken last year during a three week 95 to 101 F heat wave. No outward symptoms of tulip color breaking virus, however. I'll edit that picture 'in' here as soon as I find it. Maybe I should consider it as a suspecious player in the group/problem, etc. but for now its just on my watch list. Lets see what you think.

First photo shows a normal Maywood, second and third show the color breaking. All three pics are 'lighter' than reality. Looks like two plants will have to be pulled. Photos edited in post 05/05/12
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[Last edited by Roosterlorn - May 5, 2012 6:15 AM (+)]
Give a thumbs up | Quote | Post #252730 (9)
Name: Connie
Willamette Valley OR (Zone 8a)
Forum moderator Hybridizer Region: Pacific Northwest Lilies Sempervivums Sedums
Pollen collector I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Database Moderator Charter ATP Member Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Identifier
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pardalinum
May 4, 2012 9:02 PM CST

Moderator

Example of what I take to be the color breaking virus in Asiatic lily Rochelle. I immediately removed all plants and put in garbage can.


Thumb of 2012-05-05/pardalinum/f8bd3d
Lincoln, NE
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Miniature Gardening Butterflies
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Moby
May 5, 2012 12:09 AM CST
Unfortunately, Vamp had to go.
Thumb of 2012-05-05/Moby/6ca545

As did Kiss Me Kate
Thumb of 2012-05-05/Moby/c9e0a0

Another example
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Where are we going, and why am I in this hand-basket?
Name: Hetty
Sunny Naples, Florida (Zone 10a)
Plumerias Photo Contest Winner: 2015 Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Database Moderator
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Dutchlady1
May 5, 2012 4:25 AM CST
I'm not a Lily person but I noticed this thread. This also occurs in Plumeria. I burn them when a virus is spotted but unfortunately many people find the 'blotches' desirable..

Name: Lorn (Roosterlorn)
S.E Wisconsin (Zone 5b)
Lilies Seed Starter Pollen collector Bee Lover Region: Wisconsin
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Roosterlorn
May 5, 2012 5:22 AM CST
Rick, your post sheds new light on the topic of this thread and tempers its direction. Do you (and others) believe then, that tulip breaking virus manifests itself to the flower only? I've always thought that color loss striping in lily leaves is a symtom of the virus, and of course would show up before the flower opens to show its color distortion. Anything you can add to this Rick, please do because the more knowledgable everyone is on viruses the better off we all are! And I certainly don't want to mislead anyone.

Could one also say that possibly this cultivar is somewhat environmentally sensitive to cool/damp, hot/ humid clcles and it shows a temporary false symptom?
I appreciate your input.
Name: Rick R.
near Minneapolis, MN zone 4a
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Sages The WITWIT Badge Garden Photography Region: Minnesota Plant Identifier
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Leftwood
May 5, 2012 8:35 AM CST
Lorn, the background Maywood lilies in your third pic are an excellent example of virus. Having a normal one (at least seemingly normal) in the foreground for contrast is a fantastic idea on your part, and a very valuable addition to the data base.

Your second pic, though, even if it is virused, I would discourage publication. The pattern is very regular...not unheard of with a virus, but pretty uncommon. I just can't tell with surety, if it is virused or not. Assuming it would be the same virus as in the third pic, I would expect the symptoms to be similar on the same cultivar lily, pointing to a non-viral cause or a different virus. Without a lengthy, thorough explanation accompanying the photo, I think it would confuse lily growers.

Subsequent examples by Pard, Moby and Dutchlady are spot on. I would also hesitate in calling any of these a 'color breaking virus" even if the term is used generically. Depending on temperature, severity of infections, cultivar and other factors, the same virus may or may not color break or show symptoms at all. There are so many, many different viruses that can affect lilies that we lump into the same term: virus, because it is nearly impossible to separate them without microscopic (or more definite) analysis. Since most can't be differentiated (and I would venture that most haven't even been identified) lets just stick to the very general term "virus", and without presumptuous classification.

Whether the Tulip Break virus outwardly affects flowers only, I don't know. Obviously, the virus is throughout the plant.



Name: Lorn (Roosterlorn)
S.E Wisconsin (Zone 5b)
Lilies Seed Starter Pollen collector Bee Lover Region: Wisconsin
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Roosterlorn
May 5, 2012 9:19 AM CST
Rick, thanks for modifying and steering this thread to its present status. I had already discussed holding off data base entries with Polly pending further discussion, etc.

By default of my front garden rotation, and in checking this gardens map, I see these Maywoods along with Rabinas and Visa Versas were given away last Fall and replaced with much shorter Sunny series dwarfs and Red Alerts. Only the Garden Angel remains. This leads to another question: is it safe to plant another lily in the same spot as a removed virused one was in?

Thanks again--'we all learn together'

[Last edited by Roosterlorn - May 5, 2012 9:39 AM (+)]
Give a thumbs up | Quote | Post #252940 (15)
Name: Rick R.
near Minneapolis, MN zone 4a
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Sages The WITWIT Badge Garden Photography Region: Minnesota Plant Identifier
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Leftwood
May 5, 2012 2:43 PM CST
There is some speculation that some lily viruses may be able to live for a very short while (hours) outside of living tissue. Certainly not surviving in the soil as you ask, unless there is a surviving piece of infected lily, like a bulb scale, or bulblet.
Name: Lorn (Roosterlorn)
S.E Wisconsin (Zone 5b)
Lilies Seed Starter Pollen collector Bee Lover Region: Wisconsin
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Roosterlorn
May 5, 2012 3:40 PM CST
Tramp scales and tiny bublets are a constant in this garden with high rotation. I'll watch that area closely--and try and find out who might have gotten Maywood. I don't keep records on 'who takes what' out of here.
Name: Evan
Pioneer Valley south, MA, USA (Zone 6a)
Charter ATP Member Plant Database Moderator Forum moderator Aroids Irises Celebrating Gardening: 2015
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Tropicals Foliage Fan Bulbs Hummingbirder Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge)
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eclayne
Jun 18, 2012 5:20 PM CST

Plants Admin

Is this normal for Orange Electric? Planted last autumn.
Thumb of 2012-06-18/eclayne/37b724 Thumb of 2012-06-18/eclayne/b06070
Evan
Name: Connie
Willamette Valley OR (Zone 8a)
Forum moderator Hybridizer Region: Pacific Northwest Lilies Sempervivums Sedums
Pollen collector I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Database Moderator Charter ATP Member Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Identifier
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pardalinum
Jun 18, 2012 6:18 PM CST

Moderator

They do tend to be irregularly patterned:

Lily (Lilium 'Orange Electric')

Just to give you an idea...
Name: Evan
Pioneer Valley south, MA, USA (Zone 6a)
Charter ATP Member Plant Database Moderator Forum moderator Aroids Irises Celebrating Gardening: 2015
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Tropicals Foliage Fan Bulbs Hummingbirder Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge)
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eclayne
Jun 18, 2012 6:45 PM CST

Plants Admin

Thanks Connie. That's a load off.
Evan

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