I've recently acquired S. Dolomiticum and have been surprised to find little informatio about it's morphology. I've had the cross "Dolomiticum x Montanum" for nearly a year, a plant with an interesting form and a somewhat predictable Tectorum/Arachnoideum flower shape. After seeing the flowers of the pure Dolomiticum strain differ so much from it's Montanum cross I have made a few assertions that are up for discussion:

Firstly I now believe that Dolomiticum is a "Roller" type Sempervivum of the Jovibarba family, it has the classic globiferum/sobolifera shape; thin stolons and in-curved leaves. The flower shape also suports this association. To many of you this may not be news, but I'd like to suggest a note be made in the database regarding this distinction.

The second and more interesting discovery I have to offer is that because the shape of the Dolomiticum x Montanum flower resembles the Montanum flower, that shape is presumably dominant to the "Roller" style Jovibarba flower.

The final note worth mentioning is that since the Dolomiticum x Montanum cross appears to be fertile (good, healthy looking pollen and shapely stamens), and we know that Montanum is usually a diploid, it wouldn't be a stretch to assume that Dolomiticum is also a diploid.

This summer I have crossed "Dolomiticum x Montanum" with itself, a Tectorum hybrid and Ciliosum which is another plant I believe to be diploid. If I can't get seedlings, even from the self cross, I might consider retracting my hypothesis about the fertility of Dolomiticum x Montanum, a cross of the two branches Jovibarba x Sempervivum which by many accounts has a tendency not to be fertile. If I do successfully raise seedlings from these crosses it will be interesting to study the progeny. I am especially interested to see the pollen configuration in the Ciliosum crosses as that species has anthers of a different shape than that of most Sempervivum, and with the Dolomiticum x Montanum pollen configuration already being the result of a dominant/recessive cross, the progeny's pollen shape will be a true test of Montanum's dominant pollen expression.

Interesting!
Do you know yet if your crosses produced a lot of seeds?

Hello Sol,

Interesting proposition, I think more research needs to be done. Currently I do not have access to my older Semp literature in my primary home as I'm going through a drawn out divorce, but I did a quick look here:

http://www.sempervivum-liste.d...

enter dolomiticum and click on "anwenden" (german for "search")
and it finds 4 forms from Italian mountain locations, check out the one from Monte Tonale, it shows rather thick rope-like stolons. Another form is dolomiticum from Seekofelhütte (Italien), shows rather bright pink flowers. When on one of those Italien dolomiticum pages, can click on Bilder-Galerie for photos.
When hitting "back: it goes back to the start of searching species, just keep re-entering "dolomiticum" to see the various results. There is a page for dolomiticum x montanum, and one for dolomiticum x wulfenii.

From this bit of research, I'm not convinced dolomiticum is a former Jovibarba roller.

By the way, dolomiticum x montanum is one of my favorite semps, here's some pictures from this spring, it was the very first semp to bloom, and nothing else was in bloom to even think about making crosses.












rosettes of dolomiticum x montanum now, next to 'Dark Beauty'

To help with the discussion, made a couple screen captures from the Sempervivum-list.de site when searching on "dolomiticum", the site can be confusing to navigate, might need Google Translate (that's what I do).

Here's the records that come up when searching "dolomiticum":


This is a photo of dolomiticum from Monte Tonale, notice the thick stolons:


Sol, what was the source of your dolomiticum, with those flowers I can see why you suspect a roller (globiferum type), but it's possible to also suspect a mis-ID on the plant that you received.

Sempervivum dolomiticum photos in the wild (Italy) and other resource links:
http://www.parks.it/parco.nazi...

http://encyclopaedia.alpinegar...

This page is good:
https://www.sempervivum-saxifr...

Nice sleuthing Mark!
I've been looking and haven't seen any flowers yet on a dolomiticum that look like Sol's
so this may be the best question

AntMan01 said:
Sol, what was the source of your dolomiticum, with those flowers I can see why you suspect a roller (globiferum type), but it's possible to also suspect a mis-ID on the plant that you received.

Yes, I believe Sol has a misidentified dolomiticum and has a globiferum form instead, it would be beneficial to us all to know the nursery source of that plant, such that they could be contacted. Probably best too, that the photo showing flowers be taken off the Semp dolomiticum plant record.

The body of evidence with this species is that it grows in the Dolomites, a mountain range in northeastern Italy, and it is indeed a regular semp with pink flowers, the last link I gave gives excellent photos of various aspects of the species including flowers. Great looking species.

Sempervivum globiferum has 10 accepted subspecies based on Catalog of Life, the singular Taxonomic Resource used by NGA for all plant names, so there's lots and lots of variation with globiferum rollers, but it's not related to dolomiticum.

Now I have a great desire to find a source for true S. dolomiticum

Mark,
I have looked at the pictures for Dolomiticum on this site's database and the form seems to be the same as the images we have posted here. I received my Dolomiticum from Perennial Obsessions, a reputable source which has been one of the most accurate dealers in terms of delivering true-to-name cultivars for me so far. I got the impression that it was a fairly new addition to their stock and I couldn't say where they acquired it from. I had assumed it was more like it's Montanum cross in terms of form, so I was surprised to see it's appearance so similar to the "rollers" and even had doubts as to it's authenticity myself. When the flowers opened up this week I became certain it was a Jovibarba, if you cross reference the image I've posted with roller flowers you'll find the form to be identical. Thank you for the referance suggestions, I'll peruse them and report back.
Dirt,
I haven't looked at all of the individual seed yet but will certainly keep you updated. Once the stem and flowers dry most of the way, I cut my flowers loose over paper to catch any spilled seed. Then I put the whole flower(s) and spilled debris in a paper seed pacet to dry further, that is the stage my seed is in now and I can't remember seeing obviously viable seed in the debris. Just for the science of it I dissected one of the flowers that I had gotten the pollen parent mixed up for and this is what I found in the pods...



Dolomiticum x Montanum was also one of my first to bloom this year. It shouldn't be long before I prepare the seed for its refrigerated vernalization. I intend to start the seeds in February 2019.

I wouldn't put such stock in any dealer source of plants, in my experience all nurseries make some ID mistakes. With Perennial Obsessions, when I placed my large order, I avoided some of the semp species offerings because they looked very dubiously identified, take a look at their current offering of S. marmoreum, if that's a marmoreum then I'm a monkey's uncle.


In my view, looking at sources showing S. dolomiticum in the wilds of the Italien Dolomites, it's clearly a pink-flowered species, with regular semp-shaped flowers, not a pale white or yellowish flowered species with fimbriated petals per the roller Jovs.

Yes, please check those reference suggestions and report back

Well Mark,

I looked at all of the sempervivum-liste images, some have comparable forms but none have flowers like mine. An extensive image search has yielded the same result. Though the liste often has inconsistencies with our list, I think we've solved the mystery. I'll retract my image and contact the dealer to inform of the bad news.

Thanks for the help guys. let me know if you find a dealer of the true Dolomiticum, I love my Dolomiticum x Montanum and would love to have it's derivative strain. I kind of have a thing for the species so I'm glad we could set the record straight on this illusive plant.

Goodluck with getting past the divorce by the way, a close friend of mine is going through one after 14 years of marriage and it's been a total nightmare for him. Hopefully you'll be able to move on soon.

I suspect that some of our plant images for Dolomiticum are of the same roller I have, we may need to make some major adjustments to the entry.

Good news the mystery is resolved, I wish nurseries would do "their homework" and help validate their plant identities, otherwise they create a self-fulfilling state of misidentification, it's so much easier these days with the internet to validate IDs. Was about to post this Flora Italiana link, the flowers in the second photo are past bloom, but look as if they were pink:
http://luirig.altervista.org/f...

I totally agree with your 2nd paragraph, I love my little dolomiticum x montanum, wish I could find the true dolomiticum species.

And thanks for your sentiment about getting past my divorce, been the most difficult time in my life after 38 years marriage, I could end up with no home and loss of my gardens of 31 years, not what I thought would happen in retirement. Enough about that... Semper- Vivum! (my semps make me infinitely happy ). By the way semp folks, when I just perused the Perennial Obsessions pages, with one cultivar they mention the strong Fibonacci pattern, but now can't remember which one I saw it on... go FIBONACCI!

Semps are truly a source of endless joy!
I saw that fibonacci one to. Very familiar with the perennial obsession catalog but can't think off the top of my head which one it was.
It surprises me that some of the species are so hard to find, I can't seem to find a pure Montanum either. I'd really like to have Cmrals yellow but so would everyone else right? Probably at the top of my semps most wanted list.

The S. dolomiticum in question from P.O. came from a well known old time collector. Odd thing is that some of the rosettes look very much like some of the S. dolomiticum, including offsets that stay attached. To make matters even more difficult it did not bloom until recently. Proving it was not S. dolomiticum, but S. globiferum.
The incorrect photos have been removed from the database entry.

I did find alot of Dolomiticum images that showed a very similar rosette in shape and color to the one I have.

AntMan01 said: take a look at their current offering of S. marmoreum, if that's a marmoreum then I'm a monkey's uncle.

Indeed.

Sorry to hear about your mom Christie. That sounds like a swell tribute and a new tradition to go with your century semp.

Christie you will love the 'Ann Christy' semp. I have had it for years and have never been disappointed in it.
I found one with the name 'Peggy' for the same reason Christy. Every time I look at it I remember great times with my mom.

I love a plant with a story/history, and it is even better that I like the looks of this one, so it is a no-brainer for me. And my coyote urine granules came today, so that will be a plus for Mad Nuts Squirrely Squirrel, (even though I am keeping all my new semps indoors under grow lights for this winter.)

That's a sweet sentiment. A rose that lives forever is a great way to honor someone by.