Steve - Can't help you there (gee, I'm NO help to anyone today!!). I ordered from them twice back in '09, both times they sent microscopic teensy little bitty things that barely survived shipping let alone living in my yard (which they didn't.. I followed their instructions to be potted into a bigger pot and then into the ground, but I used MiracleGro gardening soil & that "burned" the roots and I lost everyone. Which sucks because one of them I can't find locally and am leery about ordering from Pickering again (Fisherman's Friend).