Viewing post #58960 by PollyK

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Sep 7, 2010 5:11 PM CST
Name: Polly Kinsman
Hannibal, NY (Zone 6a)

Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! I helped plan and beta test the plant database. Region: United States of America Irises Lilies
Seller of Garden Stuff Garden Ideas: Level 1
And here's Mr. Maryotts kind response.

Hi Polly,



We’ve been super busy shipping large quantities of daylilies but today I finally have a few minutes to respond.



You bring up interesting questions but the answers are not quite as simple.



I’ll try to give you some thoughts on two different subjects. The first is why daylilies sell for more than iris, the second is what’s happening with the breeding of iris and daylilies.



First is price. I think the formost issue is that daylilies are not really easy to divide. They look much better in an established clump and trying to pry some fans of the side of an established clump is not easy. Folks, in hems, tend to tell their friends “hey if you want this super new variety, I would suggest you order it” In the iris world, they say “hey, if you want to super new variety, I’ll snap you off a fan this summer and give it to you. If you don’t get it planted for several weeks, no problem. That is not the case with hems.



I think there is also a sort of “group think” that occurs. “Daylilies are expensive, always have been expensive and always will be expensive. If you want a $5 daylily, you can find folks that will supply it, but understand it is now pretty much outdated. There certainly are lots of $5 daylilies sold because most folks just want color and not necessary the best. Now with iris, the “group think” is different. The general attitude is “any iris should be cheap. Maybe $40 or so the year of introduction, but everyone will have it in two or three years so I’m not paying much for it.”



The iris growers send lots of plants to regionals and nationals to get exposure, but would rarely ask for anything to be returned. “Just keep it, spread it around so everyone will see it” and that doesn’t help the commercial growers. Daylilies sent to conventions will almost always be named cultivars and it may not be unusual for them to ask for the stock to be returned. Some dayilies will hold prices above $50 for ten or more years like FORESTLAKE RAGAMUFFIN.



One of the major reasons we moved from iris to hems was due to the price. Paying $50 for a new introduction is not fair to the breeder. It ignores the work going into creating seedlings, choosing introductions and growing them until one has sufficient stock to sell. It’s a slap in the face of the breeder. “your work is not that important…if you can’t provide it, then someone else will”



Now let me talk a minute about flower advancement. Both of these flowers were primarily diploids. The iris essentially moved from diploid to tetraploid during the 1930’s and 40’s. By 1950, nearly all of the Tall Bearded iris were tetraploids. The advancement occurred in iris primarily from 1940 to 1980 or so or maybe a bit later. Phenominal cultivars like SKY POWER were created that took blue TB iris to new heights. There have been very few new factors occuring in iris during the last ten or twenty years. This means, in my humble opinion, that the advancement of TB’s has slowed down considerable. Keith Keppel and Barry Blyth and a few other folks are still making a few advancments, but most of the newer iris are “reruns”.



Now the daylily is entirely different. Perhaps 20% of the new cultivars being introduced into commerce are still diploids or recent diploid conversions. There are an entire set of new patterns and features that have not yet been implemented. Examples are complex eyes, applique throats, patterned eyes, engraving or sculpturing, unusual forms, double and triple rims, very dark nearly black flowers, blue eyes and edges, toothy edges and the list goes on and on. The daylilies being created today look almost entirely different than the daylilies created just ten years ago. This flower is in a major transition right now. I would imagine it will be at least another 20 years before all the advancements have been implemented.



I hope this helps a bit. Remember, this is all just my opinion. I’ve been heavily involved in both flower and see some major differences between them.



Cordially,

Bill Maryott

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