Sempervivum forum

MelissaHopper said:My Borscht semp is doing something different.

The biggest rosette, the one in the middle, has started to get ruffles on it's leaves. I have never seen this before.


Closeup

Bigtattoo said:Melissa, the 'Borscht' you sent me is showing some rippling as well. I wonder if this is a winter anomaly. Don't some semps develop warts in winter, then they disappear with new growth in the spring? Could this rippling be a similar effect? Kevin, Lynn, anybody??

JungleShadows said:The ripples are due to uneven growth. Groups of adjacent cells are growing faster than the surrounding cells so the cells from the rapidly growing areas bulge upward. The bumps are in the center of the leaf not the edges. These seem to be a proliferation of cells at these points in the leaf.

This line is full of watermarks and they are likewise due to differences in cell expansion and wax deposition.

It will be interesting to see if down the line I can make these features more or less constant.

Variety is the spice of life!

Kevin

Thank you for the explanation Kevin. Very interesting.

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JungleShadows said:

What I have seen marked "Engles" should actually be 'Engle's 13-2'. It is similar but not identical to 'Purdy's 90-1' and 'Aymon Correvon'. When they did the Dalton project to determine the correct names, the thought was that 'Aymon Correvon' ( then recently renamed from "Correvon's hybrid") is the correct name for all three. Helen Payne STRONGLY disagreed with this decision. Since then she was proven right. At the Dalton project, plants going into bloom were quickly removed so that none of the stock plants could be contaminated by seedlings. However, the blooms of these cultivars are different, especially comparing 'Aymon Correvon' to the other two. 'Aymon Correvon' is also BIGGER than the other two. 'Engle's 13-2' has the most compact rosette and leaf shape, with 'Purdy's 90-1' a bit more elongated.

All three are from a montanum X wulfenii cross, probably F1, as that hybrid tends to be sterile or nearly so. I was looking at my notebook from my youth and in '68 I tried to raise seedlings from both 'Engle's 13-2' and 'Purdy's 90-1' and did so each year for 4 years with NO seedlings. My notebook says "seed looks odd, lots of chaff". Both montanum and wulfenii are diploids and their chromosomes must be enough different that it's impossible or nearly so for them to produce normal gametes. Each year here in Oregon I let the bees try to cross 'Aymon Correvon' and each year I dutifully plant the seed, noting "more chaff than seed" still. Despite planting all the open pollinated seed from 4-6 stalks each year not a single seedling has germinated. 'Greenwich Time' which is montanum X calcareum cross (again two diploids) has netted me ONE seedling. It is a nice one though!

Hope that helps!

Kevin

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Makes a very pretty little clump.

Here is Betty Bronow's description:
Linear leaves. Red purple tips and outer leaves. Deepens in winter. Cilia. Satin, Small.

This is Alpine Gardens description:
Green centers with mulberry. Very pointed and fringed outer leaves, Dark tips.

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A quote from Kevin Vaughn:

JungleShadows said:'Greenwich Time' is from 'Cleveland Morgan' X calcareum. It goes through a couple phases, sometimes looking like a more purple larger version of 'Cleveland Morgan' and sometimes looking like a velvety calcareum. Helen didn't believe me when I told her the pedigree as she had never had calcareum bloom. Several years later a box arrived from Helen with a blooming calcareum and a note attached saying "I believe you now".

It was from my very first year of crossing, If you cover the calcareum stalk you will see that it makes TONS (well maybe not tons, but lots) of pollen. I dud use 'Extra' and 'Guillaume' in crosses last year and rediscovered what I had known in '64: calcareums make lots of pollen!

The only bad thing about 'Greenwich Time' is that it's a cross of two diploids and nearly sterile. I had one seedling last year and about 6 this year from open pollinations. I do save those as they are likely to be odd combinations of things genetically.

Kevin

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A comment from the breeder of 'Holly Jolly'.

JungleShadows said:Holly Jolly is one of the more unusually patterned Killer seedlings and it did SCREAM XMAS because of the red and green coloration. It's not as big as some of the others from those groups.

Oddly enough I haven't used it much in crosses. I was concentrating on the bigger siblings. (much to Bev's chagrin!)

Kevin

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