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Name: Lola Tasmania        LolaTasmania Mar 23, 2019 4:16 PM CST |
| My rose border is nearly a year old. My original vision was for roses clothed down to the ground with little mulch showing beneath them. I now think that having foliage all the way down is not a good thing. Firstly, I think I need to keep the base of these plants bare for at least a foot in order to stop fungal spores from splashing onto the leaves. Secondly, the birds are spreading seeds in the border and if I don't see the seedings quick enough I will have blackberry and gorse all through the garden without knowing it until they become too big to handle properly. These are the roses I have. Can anyone tell me whether these varieties are easy to keep naked at the bottom, or whether they will keep putting out growth from the base? Evelyn (will be grown as an espalier along the fence so I am not worried about her) Ambridge Sharifa Asma Windermere Wollerton Old Hall (can also be espaliered on the fence if need be) Jubilee Celebration Kathryn Morley Alnwick Castle Boscobel Jude the Obscure Belle Story Princess Charlene de Monaco Which of the above roses are upright growers and which are more lax? Any lax growth and floppy canes can be supported by homemade steel supports but I'll need to put them in soon, or I can move the plants this winter (June) to a place where they can spread out a bit. |
Zone 9, Sunset Zone 9 (Zone 9b)  Mustbnuts Mar 23, 2019 5:01 PM CST |
| Lola, can you tell me if they are on own-root or if they are grafted? If grafted, is the graft above ground? My Jude the Obscure was grafted but I recall it being very upright. Same with Evelyn. Ambridge was also grafted, but it remained pretty short (for a DA rose). It had more of a bushy shape than the others. However, I don't recall it being floppy at all. My first Sharifa Asma was also grafted and much smaller and bushier than either Jude or Evelyn. My Alnwick was own root. It too was upright and not too spreading. My Jubilee Celebration is own root but it is just starting to grow from the band that I purchased, so I don't have a good sense yet as to its nature (plus it is in a pot). I just purchased Sharifa again on its own root as a band. It is in a pot and just still a little thing. The first one was in the bed that reverted back to rootstock and had roots of trees growing in there (and ultimately the tree itself came up) that the only way to remove them was to tear the bed apart and start all over again. So far, I am seeing both Sharifa and Jubilee growing more as a bush type rather than straight up. Gosh, I don't think I have helped at all. I am not sure I am answering your question. Would putting some sort of weed barrier around each of the plants (under the mulch) help at all? I would hate for you to lose your pretty border roses. |
Name: seil St Clair Shores, MI (Zone 6a)   seilMI Mar 23, 2019 6:03 PM CST |
| The only one I have is Jubilee Celebration. It's 3 seasons old and still very small. So small that I'm concerned about whether or not it made it this winter. From what I've seen though it is pretty stiff caned and upright in growth. |
Name: Lola Tasmania LolaTasmania Mar 23, 2019 7:33 PM CST |
| Mustbnuts - They are all grafted. The grafts are above the ground and I make sure there is no mulch around the base touching them. I'm hoping they are all able to stand upright without support because that would also stop rabbits and wallabies from reaching up to nibble the buds and leaves. This winter I will prune them in a way that may help me achieve this aim, but it would be great to know which ones I should be looking out for. |
Name: Arturo Tarak Bariloche, Rio Negro, Argentin (Zone 8a)     hampartsum Mar 24, 2019 6:41 AM CST |
| Lola, of your list I only share Evelyn, Sharifa Asma and Jubilee Celebration. All of them are new arrivals or very young (JC 2 years old): 1. JC seems to move towards a fairly short compact bush, about 60 cm in height. I have it placed in the front of the border so I'm very happy to see it leafed all the way down. However I am finding this season that the lower leaves have dropped and only the outer ones grow low down. The inside of the bush is bare up to about 25 cm so I imagine that this will become the standard. 2. Evelyn is a compact short very vigorous bush that sent three quite long canes (about 80 cm long) with flowering clusters at the end. I can easily see how one could espalier it. However I haven't tried it. Thanks for the good idea!  3. Sharifa Asma has grown very tall in one season. I expect it to become a tall back of the border bush. I also suspect that it will eventually shed its lower leaves and become as leggy as you wish. My suggestion is to wait a bit before deciding since in all of your cases like mine, we are seeing very young plants . If I were in your shoes I might consider stripping the lower leaves and keeping the lower part bare. After all a large portion of the photosynthesis occurrs in the upperpart of the bush where light is intercepted first. The lower leaves will catch residual filtered light so if the plant doesn't have them the negative effect is minimal. I hope that this helps in finding your best growing practise.  Arturo |
KSPNW8 Mar 24, 2019 12:14 PM CST |
| Princesse Charlene de Monaco grafted on Dr Huey is very upright for me. |
Name: Lola Tasmania LolaTasmania Mar 24, 2019 3:25 PM CST |
| Arturo - you were the one I got the idea of espaliering roses from in the first place! The photos of your garden with roses on the wire fences made me want to try it with Evelyn. I had read that Evelyn can sends out octopus arm canes so I reserved a spot on the fence to espalier it hoping it would look something like yours. KSPNW8 - I think all of my roses are on Dr Huey. I vaguely remember reading that the vast majority of roses sold in Australia are on Dr Huey because we have so many different climates that Dr Huey is the only rootstock that is successful everywhere. My PCdM is coming this June. How tall does she get? |
Name: Arturo Tarak Bariloche, Rio Negro, Argentin (Zone 8a) hampartsum Mar 24, 2019 6:21 PM CST |
Now that I'm thinking with a rose mind, derelict farm fences are such wonderful contraptions for keeping roses. Yes my fence actually divides my garden in two and really has no purpose whatsoever except...training roses to it!  I might even add a second tier above. I'm pondering placing leftover hoops from our vegggie polytunels as arches stuck into the fenceposts so that I can train larger climbers. Perhaps I can add some rays to improve sturdiness and...further support to climbers...I'm completely partial towards larger bushes that provide a lot of vertical interest.Still thanks to your post now I'm viewing a new function for Evelyn. Isn't it wonderful?. an idea started on this side moved all the southern hemisphere and came back with an improved idea! ( with this in mind and excellent result with Evelyn I'm might want a duplicate of it!....  )Arturo |
KSPNW8 Mar 24, 2019 9:06 PM CST |
| Hi Lola, I'm not sure how tall PCM will get eventually -- at the moment I have it in a 10-gallon container, which undoubtedly stunts its growth. Mine is about 4 feet tall in the container, but I suspect it will be much more vigorous in the ground. |
fisherwoman Mar 30, 2019 11:11 AM CST |
| Zone 5 ; Own root Evelyn stayed pretty close together at the base with just a few canes and grew up fountain like with long canes. Throughout the years I covered both Jude and Evelyn up with a dirt mound so they would stay toasty. Jude branched out a bit close to the ground but had only one main trunk. He was fairly short and I kept pruning him constantly. I know for sure Jude didn't multiply at all from the base over a 3 year time in the ground and stayed leafless at the bottom. I gave them up regrettably last summer. |
LuvWheaties May 4, 2019 10:24 AM CST |
I have Kathryn Morley, and she has been in the ground maybe 10 years, and was bare root. It has done very well in a sunny Southern California west facing location. She is at least 9 feet tall and 6 feet wide, and is somewhat droopy. I didn't expect this rose bush to get quite this big, but I planted it against a wall, on the end of the rose garden, knowing it would need some room. It really is beautiful, and has become my favorite rose. |
Name: Carol Alberta, Canada (Zone 3b)  Canadian_Rose May 4, 2019 12:14 PM CST |
Wow!!!! LuvWheaties - that's a gorgeous rose bush!!! It's heavenly!!!  |
Name: Mike Stewart Lower Hudson Valley, New York (Zone 6b)           Mike May 4, 2019 4:04 PM CST |
Lola, the only one on your list that I grow is Windmere, and if you even look at it cross-eyed, the blooms will shatter. So I've learned not to give a wit about the health of its leaves! I've become so annoyed with it, I practically encourage the neighbor's groundhog to come over and help himself to the plant.  |
Name: Lola Tasmania LolaTasmania May 4, 2019 4:59 PM CST |
Mike, I planted two Windermeres underneath windows and one has already grown to over 6ft so that it blocks half the window. I actually like that the blooms shatter because I hate looking out on brown and rotting blooms just hanging there. The label said it only grew to 4ft so I will have to cut it back a bit so it doesn't take over. I recently saw a photo of a Kathryn Morley that was over 9ft tall and very bushy. The label on mine states '3ft x 2ft'. The possums gave me so much grief last year that I don't know how my roses would have grown without being half destroyed every week. I have one well behaved possum now and I watch him climb through the fence and up the driveway while ignoring the gardens on either side. I will allow him to stay so he keeps others away but if he causes any trouble he will join the others.  |
Name: Porkpal Richmond, TX        porkpal May 4, 2019 6:05 PM CST |
| I really like the view through the blossoms! Porkpal |
Name: Carol Alberta, Canada (Zone 3b) Canadian_Rose May 5, 2019 12:57 AM CST |
| Lola - I love your Windemere window picture!!! Lovely and so unique with the pink/yellow glass. Mike So it's still snowing here. ARRRGGggghhhh!!!!  |
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