Daylilies forum: Clump Shots 2019

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Name: Becky
Sebastian, Florida (Zone 10a)
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beckygardener
May 19, 2019 9:32 PM CST
Larry - Interesting. Not a single rusty daylily in my yard has a clump. I have only about 6 daylilies that are a clump and they have nice looking fans. No rust at all. Most named daylilies/seedlings I have had for a number of years, but only have 2-3 fans. The ones that clumped, did so within 2 years or less. Go figure! Maybe it is the heat here in central Florida?
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Name: Larry
Enterprise, Al. 36330 (Zone 8b)
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Seedfork
May 20, 2019 5:51 AM CST
@beckygardner,
It would make an interesting topic to discuss. I hope to get out and take photos today and I will be looking at plants that have and have not formed clumps. I think it is mostly a variety thing. I want to look at see how long some of the plants have been here and still have not formed clumps and also how recently a plant arrived and yet has already formed a clump. It would also be nice to know how many fans were planted at the time. Maybe the secret to having a clump is as simple as planting four or five fans at the start?
Name: Larry
Enterprise, Al. 36330 (Zone 8b)
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Seedfork
May 20, 2019 4:00 PM CST
I had a lot of errands to run this morning, but I got out early enough to get some photos before I had to leave. I took these clump shots with the question in the back of my mind "Why do some of my daylilies form nice clumps and some don't". I thought I knew the answers already, and I think the photos just reinforced those thoughts.
1. Soil (PH Balance, nutrients, organic matter, etc)
2.Sun (I noticed right off that plants in a lot of shade to not tend to form clumps very quickly)
3.Water ( my driest beds produce the fewest clumps, large trees tend to suck up all the water also)
4.Variety (Some plants just don't do will in some locations and struggle just to survive must less thrive)
5. Maintenance (keeping off bugs, diseases and dividing etc.) I am surprised I have any clumps the way my plant are looking.
6.The number of fans planted originally (this seems to be more important for some plants than for others, but on average it looked to me like the plants I planted three to 5 fans of formed a clump much faster...duh). I don't plant single fans at all...at least none I can remember.
So pretty much what makes a single plant happy is what makes that plant form a nice clump.
Just a few of the clumps in my garden this morning:
Of course the largest clump in my garden is a NOID, now actually this is two clumps, but if two clumps grow into one clump isn't that still just a clump, or is it actually a clump of clumps?
Thumb of 2019-05-20/Seedfork/67f629
Here is another example of two or three clumps that have formed one large clump.This is 'Victorian Princess' with the large NOID clump behind it.
Thumb of 2019-05-20/Seedfork/576130
I have a lot of clumps of 'Crimson Pirate', I have this in pots and I have traded and given away many plants from my original. How big a clump would it have formed if not divided so many times over and over? This photo just shows the small clumps right at the front of one of the beds, but I have it in more locations with larger clumps.
Thumb of 2019-05-20/Seedfork/8e1055
'South Seas': Here is a photo of one clump, I have clumps of it on either side of this one and I have traded and given away lots of this.
Thumb of 2019-05-20/Seedfork/e75eba
'Ming Porcelain': This is a very large clump. I don't think this is a very popular plant for trades and giving away, because it tends to stay in a "cupped" state, never opens up flat. I like it, it reminds me of an oriental vase.
Thumb of 2019-05-20/Seedfork/ea1d6a
'Passion For Red': Pretty much the typical clump in my garden, it had beautiful blooms this morning.
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'Spider Man': Another typical clump that formed quickly in my garden. I love this one.
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'Persian Market': I think it has hit it's peak bloom.
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A photo of one of the beds down in the bog area of my garden:
Thumb of 2019-05-20/Seedfork/ff116b
So after looking over my garden I found some plants not clumping, the main reason I could actually see appeared to be lack of sunlight. I have about a half dozen plants, maybe more than need to be moved to new locations for one reason or another and given a chance to form clumps.
Name: Diana
Lincoln, NE (Zone 5b)
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ShakespearesGarden
May 20, 2019 5:52 PM CST
Beautiful clumps! Hurray!
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Name: Ginny G
Central Iowa (Zone 5a)
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Legalily
May 20, 2019 7:10 PM CST
WOW Hurray! I tip my hat to you.
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Name: shirlee
southeast (Zone 6b)
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mistyfog
May 20, 2019 7:35 PM CST
Beautiful clumps, Larry. Clumps of blooms certainly present as eye candy, and makes all that work worthwhile. Hurray!
Name: Mike
Hazel Crest, IL (Zone 5b)
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Hazelcrestmikeb
May 21, 2019 5:59 AM CST
Wonderful clumps Larry.
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Name: Elena
NYC (Zone 7a)
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bxncbx
May 21, 2019 7:14 AM CST
@Seedfork, how fast do your seedlings clump? I find that time and adaptation to my climate are the biggest predictors of whether a plant forms a clump. But I have many seedlings that add fans at a much faster rate. I assume it is because this is the only climate they've known and as they have survived here long enough to bloom they are happy in my garden (I lose a lot of seedlings due to weather).
Name: Becky
Sebastian, Florida (Zone 10a)
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Daylilies Hummingbirder Butterflies Seed Starter Container Gardener
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beckygardener
May 21, 2019 9:01 PM CST
Those are stunning, Larry! Wow!!!! Lovey dubby
What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters, compared to what lies within us.
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Name: Larry
Enterprise, Al. 36330 (Zone 8b)
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Seedfork
May 22, 2019 6:47 AM CST
@bxncbx,
I don't yet know how long it will take my seedlings to form clumps. So far none of them have. Of course, this is the first year (with the exception of a very few) for my seedlings from my own crosses to bloom. I did grow some plants form seeds received from Hemlady but those were crossed and produced up North. So that might delay them from becoming clumps?
I am guessing that it will take three years at least for any of my crosses that I decide to keep to form what I consider a "garden clump."
The AHS defines a clump as three or more fans, but out in the garden I don't really consider that a clump. I don't really have a number for how many fans it takes to make a nice "garden clump" but maybe at least eight?
It is rather simplistic, but I find that the number of fans planted will be a good predictor of how fast a clump will form, and I think a lot of people actually overlook that. I really think planting a single fan is a good predictor that it will take a very long time for most varieties to produce a clump, and way longer to produce a "garden clump".
I do agree that a plant's adaptation to the garden conditions will be a great predictor of how fast a plant forms a clump. Or maybe the reverse is true, how fast a clump forms is a good indicator of how well a plant has adapted to the garden.
Now, I don't recall ever planting a single fan, so I have no personal experience to say a single fan does not grow as fast as a plant would if more fans were planted together, but that is what I keep hearing from "Daylily People".
Name: Valerie
Ontario, Canada (Zone 4a)
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touchofsky
May 22, 2019 6:52 AM CST
I will have to look more closely at my seedling beds, but I have some that are forming clumps. A couple in the beds planted in 2017 look quite good. I will count the fans today. I find it fascinating to see the different rates of growth and performance from seedlings from the same cross.

I have planted a few single fans. I will take a look at those, too.
Name: Larry
Enterprise, Al. 36330 (Zone 8b)
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Seedfork
May 22, 2019 7:11 AM CST
Now I realize that when planting seedlings I actually did plant quite a few single fans, actually only yesterday I planted quite a few single fans. I was replacing seedlings that had been destroyed by critters. I did not count them but must have been around twenty cups of seedlings . I still had extra leftover plants in cups in my seedling cup beds, several of those cups only had one fan in the cup and that has been the case before. I have learned it is good to keep duplicate plants for such occasions as they happen quite often in my garden. For some reason when I mentioned not planting single fans I was thinking of named cultivars even though the post was about seedlings. D'Oh!
Now I mention this because normally when I am planting seedlings that have been grown in cups I plant all of the plants in a cup in one hole when transferring them to the garden. That means that as they grow there may be one to five seedlings growing in a single hole. This could help them to grow faster and adapt quicker? My plan is to let them grow and bloom, after they bloom I plan to separate them and then plant each fan or fans with the same bloom into a single new spot. those will be keepers for that year. This will also give me the opportunity to see how well they adapt to transplanting.
Name: Diana
Lincoln, NE (Zone 5b)
Daylilies Region: Nebraska Organic Gardener Dog Lover Bookworm
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ShakespearesGarden
May 22, 2019 7:46 AM CST
I think we all plant singles of seedlings : ) I planted about 25 seedlings of cross From Darkness Comes Light x Pink Stripes and many of those look like double/triple fans this spring. They are pretty much crammed together in a small space (no seriously, it's like a NYC apartment with 5 roommates) and they look really vigorous. I think they do grow best in groups as the collection of roots can hold more water in the soil and bunched foliage can shade the soil better. I will be totally shocked if none of those seedlings bloom this year, even though they're only about 15-16 months old now.

But named varieties? I've bought and grown a few SF's last fall and this spring. Last fall I bought a single fan of Phantom Dancer and it pushed up three (smallish) fans this spring.
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Name: Tina
Greenup, Ky (Zone 6b)
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beenthere
May 22, 2019 10:26 AM CST
@Seedfork I did the exact same thing with my seedlings this year! Our two older dogs will weave around a clump (group of seedlings), but crunched a few single seedlings last year. So figured planting together might be advantageous. Still no seedling bed also, so garden space is becoming very limited.. Was able to plant approx. 200 seedlings in a quarter of the space. I really think it will work well for the first year, all mine have been out since mid April, haven't lost any. Here's hoping it works for us! Edited to add my gallon bags had 3 to 12 seedlings growing.
[Last edited by beenthere - May 22, 2019 10:34 AM (+)]
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Name: Valerie
Ontario, Canada (Zone 4a)
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touchofsky
May 22, 2019 10:33 AM CST
I always separate my seedlings and plant as single fans. The odd seedling multiplies even during the first few months under lights. I space them out at approx. 8 to10 inches apart. In one bed, because of the shape, they are 1 foot apart in places. I will take pics of my best 'clumpers'. These were both planted in June, 2017.

Dream Blue x Blue Venom
Thumb of 2019-05-22/touchofsky/c536ad

Cosmopolitan x clouds of Kisses #3
Thumb of 2019-05-22/touchofsky/cced03

Name: Tina
Greenup, Ky (Zone 6b)
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beenthere
May 22, 2019 10:54 AM CST
These were planted last year at 8 inches apart. Many have doubled and about 25% have three fans. They will stay here till the fall, when I hopefully will have a seedling bed. Sad We have all the supplies (fencing, posts, gate) , just need to have some top soil delivered.
Thumb of 2019-05-22/beenthere/4b6c7b


Thumb of 2019-05-22/beenthere/46fcf6


Thumb of 2019-05-22/beenthere/c2b11a

There are more, but you get the idea. They grew well!
Name: Valerie
Ontario, Canada (Zone 4a)
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touchofsky
May 22, 2019 11:03 AM CST
They look great! It also shows the difference in our zones. Yours are much further ahead than mine.
Name: Larry
Enterprise, Al. 36330 (Zone 8b)
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Seedfork
May 22, 2019 11:20 AM CST
So out I went to take photos also:
These are Hemlady crosses: I got seeds from her and planted them, my first experience with daylily seeds. I think this is actually their third year.
These are the smallest two of them all: Could have been dug up or damaged by critters at some point.
Thumb of 2019-05-22/Seedfork/f65706
Thumb of 2019-05-22/Seedfork/418213
Here is what the majority of the rest look like now:
Thumb of 2019-05-22/Seedfork/2b54d1
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One of the blooms from this morning.
Thumb of 2019-05-22/Seedfork/7f5f26

Here are my 2017 seedlings . They were planted a foot apart:
Thumb of 2019-05-22/Seedfork/481727

Here are my 2018 seedling beds after I finished filling in the gaps of the destroyed plants: No clumps here yet!
Thumb of 2019-05-22/Seedfork/bb47d5
Thumb of 2019-05-22/Seedfork/1cf7cc
Thumb of 2019-05-22/Seedfork/99886b

Name: Mary
Crown Point, Indiana (Zone 5b)
josieskid
May 22, 2019 11:52 AM CST
Very nice, everyone. What do ya'll think of the idea I've heard that lots of people don't like a daylily to make big clumps real fast. It can make them not bloom as well? Then, people gotta divide them more often, and they don't like that.

Apparently, certain varieties do this more than others?
Name: Larry
Enterprise, Al. 36330 (Zone 8b)
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Seedfork
May 22, 2019 12:09 PM CST
Now lets think about that Thinking
Large clumps bloom more because they have more scapes.
After a daylily reaches a certain point I suppose it does crowd itself out and needs to be dug and separated. I do like to divide plants before they become so large they are very hard to work with, I have some of those now that need to be divided.
I would think the main reason for wanting a plant not to form large clumps would be for lack of space. Also huge clumps do not look nearly as neat as small little clumps sitting neatly in beds with their name tags showing. Large clumps tend to force you to dive into a mass of foliage in order to find the markers.
Naturally Sellers of daylilies love for plants to increase fast, and as a trader of plants I want all mine to increase very fast also. For those who just like to collect or have a few to grow and want low maintenance a slowly multiplying plant would be fine.
[Last edited by Seedfork - May 22, 2019 12:26 PM (+)]
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