Roses forum: Box store bagged roses.

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Minnesota (Zone 3b)
RpR
May 19, 2019 7:58 PM CST
Now I have to admit, I never thought of this but: It is best to plant bare root roses with out new growth. I.e. they are not forming new leaves etc.
Well the bagged roses from box stores, you only have an inkling if they are maybe viable IF they are starting to leaf out.
Is it best to denude them after, or before planting so they can put energy into what ever amount of roots they still have?
The ones I have so far are growing like gang-busters in the bags, which I know means little as their roots may be a joke but what do some of you do?
Name: Paul
Utah (Zone 5b)
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Paul2032
May 19, 2019 8:02 PM CST
It is best not to buy roses that are growing in the bag. Often they are waxed. It is difficult for the roots to get established to support the green growth. I would totally avoid them.......
Paul Smith Pleasant Grove, Utah
Name: seil
St Clair Shores, MI (Zone 6a)
Roses Garden Photography Region: Michigan
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seilMI
May 19, 2019 8:29 PM CST
Where did this rule come from? I always look for some leafing out when I buy bare root roses of any kind. Especially the bagged ones! We don't start getting them in the stores until late March and into April. By that time they;ve been in cold storage for months. If it's not leafing out it's probably dead and I don't want it.

Roses store the energy they need to come out of dormancy in their canes. They have a very limited supply. If you take off their new leaves you've wasted some of the energy and the rose has to have enough left to put out another set of leaves. If it doesn't have enough left the rose will die. I never remove the new growth. I want those early leaves so the rose can start photosynthesizing and feed the rose.
Minnesota (Zone 3b)
RpR
May 19, 2019 9:24 PM CST
seilMI said:Where did this rule come from? I always look for some leafing out when I buy bare root roses of any kind. Especially the bagged ones!

Bare root and bagged box store are not in the same class.
Showing buds yes, but if the plant is busy making leaves, then that energy in bare root roses does not go to the root system.
Most of the bagged roses barely have a root systems so they absolutely cannot afford to do both which I have found out from 8 dead roses in the past two years.

The information about bare root roses and leaves I first saw on a dedicated rose site some time back.
I have denuded most high buck bare roots I have put in for quite some time.
As I said leaf buds and actual leaves are not the same I tip my hat to you.

I have found trimming off the waxed ends seems to help at times.
The bagged ones I got last year, some started to look not quite right before I put them in the ground, though they did well for a bit.
Then some went belly-up.
Name: seil
St Clair Shores, MI (Zone 6a)
Roses Garden Photography Region: Michigan
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seilMI
May 20, 2019 3:09 PM CST
But those early leaves start producing food to support new root growth needed on those bare root plants. If all that stored energy all goes to root production what will the plant use to replace those stores with to produce leaves latter on? The rose knows what it is doing. Just let it grow out the way it wants. It produces those leaves first for a reason. Leave them alone.
Name: Rosemary
Sacramento, CA (Zone 9b)
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reh0622
May 20, 2019 3:12 PM CST
What is the difference between bareroot roses and bagged box store roses? Why aren't they the same? Are the bagged box store roses something different from bareroot roses that are in sawdust inside a closed bag?
Name: Porkpal
Richmond, TX
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porkpal
May 20, 2019 3:15 PM CST
The main difference I notice is that the bagged roses often have very little in the way of roots.
Porkpal
Name: seil
St Clair Shores, MI (Zone 6a)
Roses Garden Photography Region: Michigan
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seilMI
May 20, 2019 5:31 PM CST
Bare root roses from a reputable nursery usually have a fairly good sized root system. The bagged or peat potted ones get lopped off short to go into the bag or pot. But otherwise they are the same. I treat them all the same way when planting. The potted roses you buy already growing in large pots in the spring from your local nursery were bare root roses that they received in January from a large supplier and potted up and put in the greenhouse. They grow them out for customers to buy later on in the spring. It gives the customer a head start on the season. The fact that they had to pay for the pot, soil and care for several months is why they cost so much more. But you're assured of having a healthy living rose when you buy them. You get what you pay for.
Name: Paul
Utah (Zone 5b)
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Paul2032
May 20, 2019 5:48 PM CST
There is a real difference between Bare Root Roses from a reputable nursery and the bagged things at the big box stores. I see them here early in the season with green foliage long before my garden grown roses are covered with leafs. They are sometimes tempting but no thanks.....
Paul Smith Pleasant Grove, Utah
Name: Porkpal
Richmond, TX
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porkpal
May 20, 2019 7:44 PM CST
I've been known to buy them because I feel sorry for them.
Porkpal
Minnesota (Zone 3b)
RpR
May 20, 2019 7:50 PM CST
seilMI said:Bare root roses from a reputable nursery usually have a fairly good sized root system. The bagged or peat potted ones get lopped off short to go into the bag or pot. But otherwise they are the same. I treat them all the same way when planting. The potted roses you buy already growing in large pots in the spring from your local nursery were bare root roses that they received in January from a large supplier and potted up and put in the greenhouse. They grow them out for customers to buy later on in the spring. It gives the customer a head start on the season. The fact that they had to pay for the pot, soil and care for several months is why they cost so much more. But you're assured of having a healthy living rose when you buy them. You get what you pay for.

If you get a potted rose and it dies, take a CLOSE look at the roots, unless you are getting one in a pot three feet high, and then they may still have cut them.
They were cut to fit in the pot most of the time which is why they are far, far, far more fragile than true bare root roses.
If they were true bare root, you could remove all the dirt form the pot and plant them as a bare root.
Back when I bought a lot of potted, and I mean a lot, roses, I did this on and off.
I cannot say it increased the roses chance at life, but it did not harm it either.

The main tap root of a rose determines whether it lives or dies, so any rose with cut roots is a crap shoot on a good day.
I have been doing this and learning for closing in on 40 years, so I have done , seen and been told a lot.
Ma had it mostly figured out , period, though she tried new stuff , especially when the neighbor down the block with just as many roses came over to chat. Hurray!
Roses of Yesterday , suggest cutting canes down to four inches.
I never do that as I like tall roses more than short bushy ones. I tip my hat to you.
Minnesota (Zone 3b)
RpR
May 20, 2019 7:54 PM CST
seilMI said:But those early leaves start producing food to support new root growth needed on those bare root plants. If all that stored energy all goes to root production what will the plant use to replace those stores with to produce leaves latter on? The rose knows what it is doing. Just let it grow out the way it wants. It produces those leaves first for a reason. Leave them alone.
Roots support the leaves, not the other way around which is why , some times, you get a rose with no leaves but still has a green main stem as there is not enough energy to produce leaves but the roots are still supporting the main stem.
I have had a few of those come back to life, but RARELY. Sighing!

Name: Peggy
(Zone 1a)
PineapplePeg
May 20, 2019 9:02 PM CST
I personally love bag roses!! I planted 8 this year and they're just getting ready to bloom. I figure if they don't make it next year that's ok. I could never afford the variety that I got of the bag roses if I would have bought them potted from the local garden center where they are $32.
Name: Anne Peck
Indiana (Zone 5b)
Anne wants more plants
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queenanne42
May 21, 2019 8:50 AM CST
I used to buy bagged roses until I finally found good nurseries. I would never buy one now, but I do feel bad for them and the treatment they get.
Name: Rosemary
Sacramento, CA (Zone 9b)
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reh0622
May 21, 2019 9:43 AM CST
So the potted peat ones are equal to the bagged ones? I bought two potted peat roses this year: New Zealand and believe it or not, Zephirine Douhin which I'd been wanting for years from Home Depot. I've been on a quest to find thornless or nearly thornless roses that are shade tolerant and fragrant, so was delighted to find ZD, and I had also read that NZ had few thorns. I planted them immediately in large pots and both are doing beautifully, NZ has an amazing fragrance in a class separate, imo, from all my other fragrant rose, and ZD is blooming with the lovely old rose fragrance. I couldn't be happier with both. They were around $12 apiece, and have done better than any of the bareroot I bought from Lowes. The only one doing as well or better is the Francis Meilland I bought bareroot from Regan Nursery from the Bay Area which was the priciest one. It was the one fragrance that stood out to me above all in the Peace Memorial Rose Garden at the CA State Capitol, and I decided I had to have it, Close to $40 with shipping but such a bargain compared with the twigs you get from Rogue Valley which cost almost as much. It was a super-robust healthy bareroot rose. That one got planted in a large pot as soon as I received it (even forgot to soak it first) and is thriving and has bloomed with more buds coming.
SW Ohio River Valley (Zone 6b)
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vaporvac
May 21, 2019 10:27 AM CST
Ghislaine de Failigone is another you should look at for thornless and shade tolerand and HEALTHY her in a humid area. Mine is just now setting bud, so I can't comment on fragrance.
While I've yet to order from RVR, I wouldn't hesitate even knowing they are small as they have the rare ones unavailable elsewhere. The problem is they never have them all at the same time so shipping, etc. would be too much for me.
[Last edited by vaporvac - May 21, 2019 10:31 AM (+)]
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Name: Rosemary
Sacramento, CA (Zone 9b)
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reh0622
May 21, 2019 11:29 AM CST
I looked it up (not in NGA database), and found some entries online for Ghislaine de Feligonde (I assume same one) that says it
is a rambler and is sweetly fragrant. Thank you. I will keep it in mind. Did you purchase yours from online?
Name: Mike Stewart
Lower Hudson Valley, NY (Zone 6b)
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Mike
May 21, 2019 1:17 PM CST
I don't think I would remove leaves from a new rose if my intent were to direct more energy toward growing the roots. We all know that leaves are needed to produce food for the plant through basic photosynthesis. If I were to remove the leaves, I think I would temporarily stress the plant, and force it to use up more carbohydrates in its short canes than would otherwise be necessary. So I'd be skeptical of the benefits of removing leaves to expand the roots.

On the other hand, I wouldn't hesitate to disbud a young rose if my intent were to direct more energy into root growth, because flowering is a net consumer of the plants's energy, whereas I think of leaves as a net producer of energy.

All that being said, I'm not a botanist, but this would be my way of thinking.
Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
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zuzu
May 21, 2019 1:21 PM CST

Moderator

I agree with Mike's good explanation of the net-consumer/net-producer relationship to the plant.
Name: Mike Stewart
Lower Hudson Valley, NY (Zone 6b)
Garden Photography I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Roses Seed Starter Container Gardener Bulbs
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Mike
May 21, 2019 3:59 PM CST
PineapplePeg said:I personally love bag roses!!


Peggy, I had to laugh at your post, and love your attitude toward whatever works! I have to admit I haven't bought a bagged or boxed rose in years, but as I write this post, I'm looking out my window at a beautiful Ballerina that I bought for $2 in August at least 10 years ago. It was an end-of-season clearance sale of J&P roses that had sat out unpurchased in a small nursery all summer long. The box was dilapidated and weather-worn from having been rained on, dried out, rained on, dried out... all season long. And yet, this rose was leafed out and blooming its little head off. I thought, if that rose can look that good after an entire spring and summer of abuse in a cardboard box, it will thrive in my garden. Since then, it has been transplanted twice, and moved from one house to the other, and is among my healthiest, hardiest specimens. In its current location it gets all day blistering sun in the summer, and ferocious winds in the winter, and just smiles its way through life. It was the best $2 I ever spent on a rose. It's just getting ready to bloom for the first time this spring, but here's a photo from seasons past.

Thumb of 2019-05-21/Mike/8f93a9

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