Roses forum: Peace Rose was a little floppy

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Name: David Tillyer
New York City
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BigAppleRoseGuy
Jun 1, 2019 12:21 PM CST
Hi folks. In a thread in May, Ray-Gun mentioned that two of his Peace Roses he purchased last year were still "spindly".
I'm having a similar sort of experience. My two Peace Roses are in their third year in my garden and they have been
very, very prolific with blooms...masses of them. They've had so many blooms, but their rather spindly branches are
flopping down.

I bought a cornus sericea (shrubby dogwood) for its pretty red stalks in the winter. I had a place all prepared for
it in the back section of the garden next to a sidewalk. As I was getting ready to plant it this morning I was
puzzling over one of the Peace Roses that is about five feet high but drooping at the end of every branch. It's toward
the front of the garden and a bit squashed in among other roses. I guess you can figure out what I did. I dug up the
Peace Rose and put it in the prepared site for the dogwood and put the dogwood up front with the other roses.

Here's my question: The Peace Rose (one of them) is now in a site where I can support it. However, I'm not sure how to support it.
My thought is using a peony hoop. Does that make sense? Would it work? Any other ideas?
David
[Last edited by BigAppleRoseGuy - Jun 1, 2019 12:52 PM (+)]
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Coastal Southern California (Zone 13a)
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jerijen
Jun 1, 2019 3:30 PM CST
In my experience, 'Peace' has been rigidly upright. Is this plant growing on its own roots, by any chance?
Name: seil
St Clair Shores, MI (Zone 6a)
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seilMI
Jun 1, 2019 9:40 PM CST
Could you post a picture? Peace is generally pretty stiff caned. BUT if it has tons of big blooms they may be weighing it down. Also has it been raining heavily? Large open wet blooms can be very heavy and cause the blooms to nod downward.
Long Island, New York, USA (Zone 7a)
Region: New York Roses
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Ray_Gun
Jun 3, 2019 9:54 AM CST
Hmmm that's really interesting that they're growing that way for you. For reference, my Peace roses are all own-root. Last year was their first year in the ground and they didn't get taller then maybe 12-18". This year they're already getting taller/thicker but nothing crazy. I'm hopeful that next year they'll really start to put some good growth out. First year they sleep, second year they creep, third year they leap...hopefully! Crossing Fingers!

As mentioned, put some pics up and it will help the resident experts (not me!) diagnose potential issues.
Name: David Tillyer
New York City
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BigAppleRoseGuy
Jun 6, 2019 6:37 PM CST
I'm not sure if these two Peace roses are own root or not. I assume so, but I don't remember. Can I tell now when they're in the ground?
Pics will come tomorrow. I've transplanted and pruned one heavily and the other is tied back to a fence.

Thinking about it now, it has been really rainy here and, probably worse, the one that is still in its original place is very crowded.
David
Long Island, New York, USA (Zone 7a)
Region: New York Roses
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Ray_Gun
Jun 7, 2019 9:04 AM CST
I look forward to seeing the pictures. I think the only way to tell is to check if there is a bud union. It looks like a big knot just above the actual root system. Did you notice one on the rose you transplanted? In our region it's recommended to bury the bud union a couple of inches underground for winter protection. Other than that I'm not aware of a way to tell if a rose is grafted or own root.


Thumb of 2019-06-07/Ray_Gun/1a3021

Coastal Southern California (Zone 13a)
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jerijen
Jun 7, 2019 10:16 AM CST
FWIW, 'Peace' was bred to be grown on a powerful rootstock. There are some roses of that type which will do fine on their own roots, but they will probably not ever grow just like budded roses.

But if you got your 'Peace' roses from a regular nursery or the like, they're likely budded.
Name: David Tillyer
New York City
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BigAppleRoseGuy
Jun 7, 2019 8:57 PM CST
Hi Ray_Gun.
I'll check the bud union on Saturday. I have plans for a serious clean up then.

Jerijen
I'm not sure who I got the Peace roses from. It was definitely online. I'm sloppy on record keeping.
David
Coastal Southern California (Zone 13a)
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jerijen
Jun 8, 2019 10:37 AM CST
David -- If you got them from an on-line source, it's likely that they are on their own roots.

Many roses grow like blue blazes on their own roots. Many do not.

Most MODERN HT's (including Peace) were bred and selected with the "given" that they would be grown budded onto a strong rootstock, which would push them into vigorous growth. Even so, some of them grow just as well on their own, but I think that, if I wanted to grow Peace, and have it grow as it's intended, I would buy a budded plant.

I find that some own-root roses start out very tentatively, but shape up and put on some stronger growth -- EVENTUALLY -- but you may not want to wait all those years, when you could just grow it budded.
Name: David Tillyer
New York City
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BigAppleRoseGuy
Jun 8, 2019 3:39 PM CST
As it happens, the really floppy rose is not the Peace. I'm still trying to figure out what it is, but its major problem is crowding. I hauled out an enormous plaque of hellebores. It was hogging territory above and below the ground.

The Peace that I transplanted is languishing somewhat due to the transplanting process. I fed it and said encouraging words today and it should be OK.

I have another rose that I need to ID, but I'll put it in another thread.

Exhausted from a couple of hours in the garden,
David
Long Island, New York, USA (Zone 7a)
Region: New York Roses
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Ray_Gun
Jun 10, 2019 2:14 PM CST
David, what jeri mentions about modern HT's being bred specifically for root stock is super important. I wish I knew that last year when I ordered my Peace roses. They'd be much better off by now for sure. It makes sense, too, when you think about how selectively breeders were as they chased one particular trait above all others, scent, form, color, etc. I'm glad to hear that your floppy rose isn't Peace, though. I'm sure if you get a picture up someone will be able to help ID. For what it's worth, my own root Peace roses are twice as high (2 of 3) then they were last year but the canes are still not as thick as my Mister Lincolns which are also from last year but are on Dr. Huey root stock. I'm hoping they catch up eventually. They also just finally put out buds whereas my Lincoln's are almost done with their first flush.
[Last edited by Ray_Gun - Jun 10, 2019 2:15 PM (+)]
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Name: David Tillyer
New York City
Image
BigAppleRoseGuy
Jun 10, 2019 6:01 PM CST
Ray_Gun.
My Peace (now that I know which one it is) has put out a bunch of blooms this year.
I think we're in the same zone, unless you're way, way out on the Island.

I cut back my one Peace that was sort of floppy and it is now a sad, wounded rose. It will likely benefit
from this soaker that we had today though. I'll pull together a photo of it soon.
David
Long Island, New York, USA (Zone 7a)
Region: New York Roses
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Ray_Gun
Jun 11, 2019 8:17 AM CST
I'm not too far out; western suffolk county. Yes this rain is good for the plants not great for the blooms but what can you do? At this point I'd just give it some fertilizer and see how it does the rest of the season. Then next spring depending on winter die back don't 'hard prune' it just let it fill in a bit more. I hard pruned my Peaces this year and kind of wish I didn't. I'll have to get some pics for you to see, too.
Name: David Tillyer
New York City
Image
BigAppleRoseGuy
Jun 11, 2019 1:16 PM CST
Good advice. I'll fertilize and mulch this weekend.
It is a wonderful rose.

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