Roses forum: Vintage Roses

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Name: Nick Rowlett
Gladstone, OR (Zone 7a)
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NickyNick
Jun 3, 2019 7:32 PM CST
This row of vintage roses was planted along the property line of the people who built both of the houses that the property line divides (the Crown family) in 1945. This was told to me by the grand daughter (or daughter)of the builder, and she said that the rose bush at the far end of the row is a Rose of Sharon, planted in her honor (Sharon Crown).
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This is a close-up of the first in line - the closest rose bush to the street - the roses are blood red in color and persist on the plants until well into the Fall, nearly Winter.
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The 2nd in line is a bush that suffered greatly last year during the hot weather, and especially since it grew right next to the trunk of a large pine tree, which was cut down this year because of beetle infestation. Now that it is in the clear, it will be taken much more better care of by me.
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Third in the row, another old vintage rose which was heavily shaded by the pine (log sections of which are stacked next to it.
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A close-up of the same rose as in the previous pic, the third bush in the row
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Another close-up of the same bush (as in the previous 2 pics)
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The row of vintage rose bushes from another angle
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The 4th vintage rose in the row: the Rose of Sharon
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Name: Carol
Alberta, Canada (Zone 3b)
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Canadian_Rose
Jun 4, 2019 12:26 AM CST
Lovely roses, Nick! I especially love the intense red of the roses in your first picture!
Coastal Southern California (Zone 13a)
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jerijen
Jun 4, 2019 11:03 AM CST
Hey Nick --

I checked HelpMeFind just to be sure, but there do not seem to be any recorded roses named "Rose of Sharon". In fact, "Rose of Sharon" is a Hibiscus!:
https://www.thespruce.com/rose...

So, I suspect that the so-called "Rose of Sharon" is probably a rose that Sharon liked a lot. Or, maybe there was a Hibiscus there, and it died, and was later replaced by a rose.
Name: Nick Rowlett
Gladstone, OR (Zone 7a)
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NickyNick
Jun 4, 2019 12:57 PM CST
to: jerijen

on this website > Garden.org

look on the homepage under the heading :
Popular Pages
> Rose of Sharon

Roses Of Sharon: Plant Care and Collection of Varieties, moderated by zuzu
Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
Charter ATP Member Region: California Cat Lover Roses Clematis Irises
Garden Ideas: Level 2 Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier Garden Sages Forum moderator Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
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zuzu
Jun 4, 2019 1:21 PM CST

Moderator

I can understand your confusion, Nick, because I am the moderator of roses and hibiscuses. The Roses of Sharon custom database is for Hibiscus syriacus and Hibiscus sinosyriacus and has nothing to do with roses.
Name: Paul
Utah (Zone 5b)
Grandchildren are my greatest joy.
Charter ATP Member Annuals Echinacea Vegetable Grower Hybridizer Tomato Heads
Garden Photography Birds Cut Flowers Foliage Fan Houseplants Plant Lover: Loves 'em all!
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Paul2032
Jun 4, 2019 1:36 PM CST
Welcome Nick.....hope you enjoy NGA and continue to participate.....
Paul Smith Pleasant Grove, Utah
Name: Nick Rowlett
Gladstone, OR (Zone 7a)
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NickyNick
Jun 4, 2019 3:09 PM CST
to: jerijen
and
to: zuzu

Yes, you're right - I should have look a little further down on the page, then I would have seen the words "Hibiscus" mentioned several times! The first image I saw in the upper right of the screen looked exactly like some of the rose bushes I've seen, and the flowers even resembled some of the roses I've seen, believe it or not. Even some of the so called "blue roses", one of which my aunt had, a trailing or climbing rose called "Blue Peter" I think it was.

What I'm NOT confused (or mistaken) about is what Sharon Crown told me about Rose of Sharon, that it was the name of the rose pictured in this thread :
The 4th vintage rose in the row: the Rose of Sharon
PICT0031.JPG

I am 100% sure what she told me, and 100% sure that the plant in that pic is indeed a rose bush (not a Hibiscus) and whether or not there was a Hibiscus planted there at one time, I have no idea.

Is there a rose bush called "Rose of Sharon"? I don't know that either. I only know what Sharon Crown told me about that particular rose bush (The 4th vintage rose in the row: the Rose of Sharon PICT0031.JPG) Maybe it was Sharon Crown who was confused - R.I.P. Sharon.

Now the property where Sharon Crown once lived, and her father once built, and her grandfather lived too, for a while, is in new ownership. Sharon told me that her grandfather was a horticulturist and collected rare plants, and even planted some there on the property. One was a large tree that was cut down many years ago - Sharon gave me a section of the trunk because she knew I was a woodworker. It looked exotic, that's all I remember about it. That was long ago and far away …

I do like vintage or antique roses and sure hope that someone can identify some of them by name (which cultivar) - but if not, they are names only. The 4th in line, next to the Crown Apple Tree, is very fragrant, and so is the 1st in the row, next to the street - very fragrant and intensely blood-red. That one is my favorite and now that the pine tree is gone, I will work on getting it pruned so that it can spread out into its full glorious self once more. The pine tree was planted many years after the roses were planted - a row of pines were planted down the same row of roses by Sharon Crown's husband, and those pines grew to a height of maybe 30 or 40 feet before they were blown down by wind storms in different years. One of them I made a bench from. This last one was finally cut down this year, for firewood.

What is known (or not known) at this point:

The roses were planted about 1945 when the house that Sharon was living in - and the one that I'm living in, were both built. This she told me. True or not, I don't know.

Well anyway, let's just enjoy the day and appreciate these beautiful roses, blooming just in time for our annual Rose Parade, which is upcoming (the annual Portland Rose Parade and associated activities in downtown Portland, Oregon - a major event and tourist attraction with participants from our sister city in Japan, the Rose Festival fleet of ships in the harbor at the waterfront where visitors are allowed to go aboard the ships, a carnival along the waterfront, etc., and of course Portland is known as "The City of Roses"

nuff said - I'm going to eat lunch!

Thank you one and all for looking at my thread. Such a nice place to be: Garden.org

I will personally send Tree-Mails to each and all commenters after a while …
Name: Porkpal
Richmond, TX
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Keeper of Poultry Farmer Roses Raises cows
Garden Ideas: Level 2 Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier
porkpal
Jun 4, 2019 3:34 PM CST
Nick, if you can post some more photos of the mystery roses, including close up views of the blooms, leaves, stems, etc, it may be easier for someone here to make an identification.
Porkpal
Coastal Southern California (Zone 13a)
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jerijen
Jun 4, 2019 4:01 PM CST
Nick -- Indeed there is not a rose named "Rose of Sharon."

There is a website: HelpMeFindRoses:
https://www.helpmefind.com/ros...
which lists just about every known rose.

I tried looking for roses whose names just included "Sharon" and found that there are, indeed, quite a few roses whose names include "Sharon". Those, however, seem to have all been introduced from the late 20th Century or the early 21st Century, and thus could not have been planted in the 1940's. You can run the searches other ways, but it won't come up with "Rose of Sharon."

What may be at work here . . . If, within the family, there was one rose which was "Sharon's" favorite, it may have been given the "nickname" "Rose of Sharon." I'd bet on that.

A man here, some years ago, brought in a rose which his grandmother had grown ... having taken it as a cutting in the local cemetery, in the late 1800's. Pending identification, and the lady being named "Sarah Moon", we agreed that the rose could be studynamed "Sarah Moon".

It may well be possible to identify that rose, but to be honest, leaving as Sharon's Favorite wouldn't bother me one whit.

fisherwoman
Jun 4, 2019 6:20 PM CST
Nick,
There are so many red vintage roses;
it does remind me of Crimson Glory, one I wanted for years- maybe I'll at least see it someday. The pink globular rose is beautiful.
I like photo 7 where the red roses on the right are looking at their old tree friend. I would have loved a round chunk of it for a table.
I have a 6 foot dead tree in the dining room with my kitchen utensils and biscuit cutter hanging on it. Hopefully one of these days I'll get around to making a rustic rose trellis.
Name: Christopher
New Brunswick, NJ, USA (Zone 7a)
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AquaEyes
Jun 4, 2019 6:42 PM CST
If Sharon's grandfather was indeed a horticulturist who collected rare plants, it could very well be that he raised a seedling from one of his own crosses and named it "Rose of Sharon" -- but never registered the seedling. That could explain why there is no such rose with that name on HelpMeFind. Of course, it could also be the case that he nicknamed it himself, and it actually is something that was commercially available.

:-)

~Christopher
Name: Nick Rowlett
Gladstone, OR (Zone 7a)
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NickyNick
Jun 5, 2019 12:13 PM CST
Since these roses were all greatly hindered by large pine trees for several years to develop their natural growth habits, and I was absent from this residence for various periods of time from 1968, when my family moved here, to the present - I can only rely on my personal observations from about the mid 1990s to the present time.

From about 1990 to 2019 there were 3 of the large (40 to 60 foot tall) pine trees standing, which were planted on the property line with the roses. During the time period of approximately 1990 to 2000, two of the pine trees had blown over from high winds. From approximately 2013 to present, the last tree remained, and was removed in May of this year.

The trunk of this last tree was pressed against the first rose in the line, but since this rose was on the south side of the trunk and received the most sunlight, it has grown to be the largest of what I consider to be the "bush form" roses.

The last in the line, which is just next to the apple tree, and is climbing into its branches, has a different growth form than the others. It has long pendulous canes that never persist in an upright position for very long before bending over and continue growing in length along the ground, or up into the branches of the tree (only because the tree was so close to it). I would not call this rose a climbing rose though, because I have seen some of the old "vintage" climbers, and this one is not like one of those.

I will be shortly looking through some of the family photograph albums to see if there are any scenes of these roses in them. Then I can see how they looked then, and I will scan the photograph and post it here. That should tell the story on when they were planted maybe …

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Name: Nick Rowlett
Gladstone, OR (Zone 7a)
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NickyNick
Jun 5, 2019 1:04 PM CST
The International Rose Test Garden in the "City of Roses", Portland, Oregon USA
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Name: Nick Rowlett
Gladstone, OR (Zone 7a)
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NickyNick
Jun 5, 2019 1:33 PM CST
Portland Rose Festival Fleet Week
[it's all about the roses!]

The ships are coming in today - a major event in Portland because the Broadway, Steel and Burnside bridges must be lifted (they are draw-bridges) to allow the ships to pass underneath. This disrupts traffic in the busy downtown area for hours.

These are the ships that will be docked in Portland for Fleet Week:
U.S. Coast Guard ships : USCGC Steadfast (WMEC 623), USCGC Bluebell (WLI-313), USCGC Terrapin (WPB 87366), T/V Ironwood
Royal Canadian Navy ships : HMCS Nanaimo (MM702), HMCS Edmonton (MM7030)
U.S. Navy : USS Pinckney (DDG 91)

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Name: Nick Rowlett
Gladstone, OR (Zone 7a)
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NickyNick
Jun 5, 2019 7:23 PM CST
Numbered items in Cyan:

1 The 4th rose in the row: (PICT0031.JPG)
2 Pine tree which was planted between the rose bush and the original Crown Apple Tree
3 The original Crown Apple Tree
4 Rose bush faintly visible (2nd or 3rd rose bush in the row)
5 Another pine tree (partially visible) which was planted in the same row as the rose bushes (planted among them along the property line)
6 The Crown (Flues) house

ADDITIONAL NOTES:
This photo was taken from the house which is now my residence. Both this house and the Crown (Flues) house were built by the Crown family. Sharon Crown was daughter of Dr. Crown, who helped build both houses in 1945.
Sharon Crown (maiden name) became Sharon Flues (married name). Dr. Crown had a chiropractic clinic in the house which I now live. The rough looking siding beneath the power meter is a peeling plywood veneer panel which was used to conceal the entrance to the clinic. When our family moved into this house in 1968 this entrance led to a small waiting room, joined by a larger room which was the clinic where Dr. Crown had an X-ray machine. Everywhere in the ground are buried little medicine bottles from that clinic. Apparently the bottles were buried in small "bottle dumps" and later scattered around in the soil when portions of the lot were graded.
The pine trees in 1976 appear to be about 6 feet tall.



PIC > 4th of July 1976EN/L.JPG

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Name: Seth n Sam .....
W.V. (Zone 6a)
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Weluvroses
Jun 6, 2019 5:12 PM CST
There is a Rose of Sharon flowering tree/shrub that look like roses. But are not Roses or related to Roses. Maybe that's what it is.
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Name: Nick Rowlett
Gladstone, OR (Zone 7a)
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NickyNick
Jun 6, 2019 5:14 PM CST
Compare this pic with the previous one (above, this thread)

Most of the row of rose bushes can now be clearly seen (at left in pic) - from their appearance, judging from the size of the canes, they have been there for many years when this pic was taken in 1978. The other rose bushes in the row are hidden behind the tree and the 1961 Chevy Apache 10 panel truck (Neptune green in color) parked in the driveway. How many rose bushes were in this row? A lot more than I previously thought before locating this photograph in a family album just now. Maybe 10? Still looking … maybe I'll come up with another nice photo like this one!

PIC > April 1978EN.JPG


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