Roses forum: "Dawn Crest" (MORsoucrest)

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Coastal Southern California (Zone 13a)
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jerijen
Jun 10, 2019 12:07 PM CST
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https://www.helpmefind.com/gar...

We had this wonderful, un-released Ralph Moore climber, but lost it a few years back, when the irrigation system failed in a heat emergency.

Two plants, re-acquired, are beginning to show their stuff, now, and I am so happy to have "Dawn Crest" back in my garden.

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Zone 9, Sunset Zone 9 (Zone 9b)
Roses
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Mustbnuts
Jun 10, 2019 12:21 PM CST
Really, really pretty! Ralph knew what he was doing!
Coastal Southern California (Zone 13a)
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jerijen
Jun 10, 2019 12:32 PM CST
I understand why the cresting didn't meet his vision ... but I've found that it increases, with maturity. And it's a great garden rose.
SW Ohio River Valley (Zone 6b)
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vaporvac
Jun 10, 2019 10:12 PM CST
One of my favorites from my wishlist! That is such a pretty flower showing at stamens.
Sydney, Australia (Zone 10b)
Protoavis
Jun 10, 2019 10:50 PM CST
jerijen said:I understand why the cresting didn't meet his vision ... but I've found that it increases, with maturity. And it's a great garden rose.


I think part of the issue there was going into moderns too quickly to gain rebloom. Would have been interesting if he went the route of getting the same degree of cresting from Crested Moss on something more fertile, like breeding to St Nicholas and sibling crossing a couple generations to have a wider stable before adding any moderns...just may have been slower.

If you look at Paul Barden's Crested Damask (Marbee x Crested Jewel) it's more crested of the Moore derivatives.

Peach Crest which has Crested Moss three times in its linage but still doesn't come close to Crested Moss.

Granted there are health and/or fertility issues with most of the first gen crosses which is probably part of the reason we are where we are.
Anyone with oryzalin (aka Surflan, Embargo), am looking for a small amount rather than 5litres from manufacturer (min size in Australia....)
Coastal Southern California (Zone 13a)
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jerijen
Jun 11, 2019 10:14 AM CST
BUT 'Crested Damask' is a once-bloomer that would not flourish here in La-La Land ... while "Dawn Crest" is abundantly remontant, as well as being completely disease-resistant.

Ralph Moore was a smart dude, and he was focused on his goal. If only he'd had a few more decades . . .
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Name: Suzanne/Sue
Sebastopol, CA (Zone 9a)
Sunset Zone 15
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Calif_Sue
Jun 11, 2019 11:04 AM CST

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You in pink right? Recognize that turquoise! nodding And is that Burling seated far left?

Those blooms are so pretty, love the glow coming from their centers!
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SW Ohio River Valley (Zone 6b)
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vaporvac
Jun 11, 2019 11:39 AM CST
I think Burling is standing left facing of the man in the red jacket.
Coastal Southern California (Zone 13a)
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jerijen
Jun 11, 2019 12:17 PM CST
Yes. She is.

And, here's another photo I treasure, from that day:
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Mr. Moore (R) with "the man in the red jacket" -- Viru Viraraghavan -- It doesn't get any better than that.

[Last edited by jerijen - Jun 11, 2019 12:18 PM (+)]
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Zone 9, Sunset Zone 9 (Zone 9b)
Roses
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Mustbnuts
Jun 11, 2019 2:43 PM CST
Wow! Great pictures! Wow! Viru too? Fabulous day!

I too wish Ralph was somehow able to have an additional 20 years! Who knows what would have been developed! I miss his nursery. It should have been preserved rather than becoming a Walmart.
Sydney, Australia (Zone 10b)
Protoavis
Jun 11, 2019 5:38 PM CST
jerijen said:BUT 'Crested Damask' is a once-bloomer that would not flourish here in La-La Land ... while "Dawn Crest" is abundantly remontant, as well as being completely disease-resistant.


Dawn Crest is also not all that crested compared with its parent...by his own admission it didn't achieve his goal.

Crested Damask was simply an example that suggests the cresting trait benefits from something in the older classes that isn't in moderns given that it'smore crested than either of its parents. Moderns can give rebloom and colour but they only seem to reduce cresting. To see anything with cresting approaching Crested Damask you need to highly inbreed the Moore roses, even then there's fertility issues and they still don't come close to Crested Moss itself. If the goal is reblooming heavily crested roses we may get there with further heavy inbreeding but they aren't likely to be healthy given the health and fertility issues that exist already. Imagine have a reliable parent with the same level of cresting as Crested Moss and being able to cross Peach Crest with it, you now have seedlings that would likely be more crested and caple of producing rebloomers in the next generation.

Given Moore was using Crested Moss for some time we can't really say all OGR have problems in hot long seasons. There are quite a few that do well here in Sydney Au where summer temps often exceed 40c/100f and winter never see freezing, Gallicas shouldn't bloom here but some do. There are growers in india that grow damask roses commercially, centifolia despite their many petals are often seed fertile in india and pakistan, being on the equator isn't as big a road block as is often made out to be, there is variety in the older classes, most may do poorly but that doesn't mean they all will.

Anyone with oryzalin (aka Surflan, Embargo), am looking for a small amount rather than 5litres from manufacturer (min size in Australia....)
SW Ohio River Valley (Zone 6b)
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vaporvac
Jun 11, 2019 7:41 PM CST
I was wondering if that was Mrs. Viraraghavan. What a day that must have been! I don't know that I would have been able to handle it!, but I sure would have tried!
Coastal Southern California (Zone 13a)
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jerijen
Jun 12, 2019 11:05 AM CST
"I miss his nursery. It should have been preserved rather than becoming a Walmart."

*** Is it? Becoming a Wal Mart? !Que lastima! Crying

I must confess that I have never gone back to the site. I just . . . CAN'T.

In my memories, we drive up, open the squeaky screen door, and go in to find Carolyn and Mr. Moore in the office. In my memories, we wander up and down the rows of roses, and slip through the garden. If I went back there, I might lose that.

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Name: Porkpal
Richmond, TX
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porkpal
Jun 12, 2019 1:18 PM CST
Great picctures, jerijen!
Porkpal
Zone 9, Sunset Zone 9 (Zone 9b)
Roses
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Mustbnuts
Jun 15, 2019 1:47 AM CST
Yes, great pictures! Jeri, I had read that a Walmart was built there but looked up the address. Walmart is just a couple of blocks away from the old nursery. According to google maps, everything has been cleared and it is just a vacant lot at the moment. How sad to lose such a treasure.
Coastal Southern California (Zone 13a)
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jerijen
Jun 15, 2019 11:26 AM CST
As long as I stay away, the place will always exist, as it was, in my memory.
Zone 9, Sunset Zone 9 (Zone 9b)
Roses
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Mustbnuts
Jun 15, 2019 11:31 AM CST
I totally understand. Have you been to the memorial garden? I think it has 300 varieties of his plants, planted there. I think it would be glorious to see but I can't bring myself to go and visit it. I am afraid it would not compare to the "real thing" (aka, the nursery).
Coastal Southern California (Zone 13a)
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jerijen
Jun 15, 2019 3:45 PM CST
Yes. We were there a few years back, when there was a little memorial service, with some talks. I hope the garden has prospered tho.

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