Orchids forum→Dendrobium Nestor, anosmum 'Little Scent' discussion

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Name: Big Bill
Livonia, Michigan (Zone 6a)
American Orchid Society Judge
Region: United States of America Critters Allowed Growing under artificial light Echinacea Hostas Region: Michigan
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BigBill
Jun 15, 2019 7:20 AM CST
There is one very silly thing that has happened here and it only adds to further confusion.
From what I now realize, you mean to tell me that some "Orchid Idiot" has seen fit to use 'Little Sweetscent' as a clonal name within this Nestor, anosmum, aphyllum complex?? That is asinine!! No wonder there is confusion!

But then let me add that I find the practice of orchid labels to be one huge DISASTER. Varieties dropped, quotations added, deleted, miss spellings, letters left out, letters added, letters mistaken for something else. Is it any wonder that there are unexplained phenomena that constantly crop up?
Then you compound it by a very limited level of knowledge regarding Genus/Species/Variety/Form and Clonal Name! A simple "o" for an "a" can lead to who knows what.
I think I am going to sit back and grow fungus instead!!! Rolling on the floor laughing D'Oh!
Let me see, moisture, a dark damp basement, inertia! Check.
When you grow orchids, it is all about the ROOTS!!!
[Last edited by BigBill - Jun 15, 2019 7:22 AM (+)]
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Name: lindsey
wesley chapel, fl
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Orchids Photo Contest Winner 2021
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sugarcane
Jun 15, 2019 8:42 AM CST
Thanks Ursula, for splitting this thread.
I have several (probably) offensive Den. labels and I want to go back and make sure I put the right (for now) name on them.
Thank You!
lindsey
Name: Carol
Santa Ana, ca
Sunset zone 22, USDA zone 10 A.
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ctcarol
Jun 15, 2019 8:43 AM CST
I think you've got it, Bill. Thumbs up
Name: Big Bill
Livonia, Michigan (Zone 6a)
American Orchid Society Judge
Region: United States of America Critters Allowed Growing under artificial light Echinacea Hostas Region: Michigan
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BigBill
Jun 15, 2019 8:47 AM CST
Ah, let me stick with Cochleanthes.
My Cochleanthes discolor has a bud growing underlights. That is pretty sweet since they like it on the humid side.

Edit: oh no!!!!
Now this is Warczewiczella discolor!!
When will this madness end?
I am going to check on my fungus.
When you grow orchids, it is all about the ROOTS!!!
[Last edited by BigBill - Jun 15, 2019 8:50 AM (+)]
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Name: lindsey
wesley chapel, fl
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Orchids Photo Contest Winner 2021
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sugarcane
Jun 15, 2019 10:28 AM CST
Rolling on the floor laughing
lindsey
Name: Carol
Santa Ana, ca
Sunset zone 22, USDA zone 10 A.
Charter ATP Member Bookworm Hummingbirder Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Orchids Region: California
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ctcarol
Jun 15, 2019 1:27 PM CST
You're frustrated? With all your years of orchid experience? Those of us without that experience buy these, trusting that the grower labeled them correctly. Sighing!
Name: Ken Ramsey
Vero Beach, FL (Zone 10a)
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drdawg
Jun 15, 2019 1:51 PM CST
Ha, ha, Carol. Sometimes it gets even more interesting than mis-labeling. When I had 'Tropical Plants & More' up and running, I bought orchids (wholesale) by the hundreds, several times each year. I cannot tell you the number of times that I bloomed varieties and the flowers were not the same as what the growers showed on their websites.

I dutifully would contact the grower, send them the photos of the flowers, and they would change their photos to one of mine. Most were very nice about this and always apologized for their errors. A couple of times a grower seemed to be disturbed that I would have the audacity to tell him that his photos were wrong. Of course, without a further word, I would see that the photos were changed to mine. Whistling
drdawg (Ken Ramsey) - Tropical Plants & More
http://www.tropicalplantsandmo...
I don't have gray hair, I have wisdom-highlights. I must be very wise.
Name: Carol
Santa Ana, ca
Sunset zone 22, USDA zone 10 A.
Charter ATP Member Bookworm Hummingbirder Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Orchids Region: California
Plant Identifier
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ctcarol
Jun 15, 2019 2:34 PM CST
I can imagine the grower not changing hundreds of tags when new names come out, too.
Name: Ken Ramsey
Vero Beach, FL (Zone 10a)
Tropical Plants & More
Orchids Greenhouse Vegetable Grower Ferns Region: United States of America Hummingbirder
Composter Bromeliad Master Gardener: Mississippi Cat Lover Tropicals Plumerias
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drdawg
Jun 15, 2019 2:51 PM CST
None of them do in my experience, Carol. That's thousands of orchids over the 6 yr. period. I have a feeling that only if new labels have to be ordered because labels ran out, do commercial growers update labeling. Some, perhaps most, don't even do it then.
drdawg (Ken Ramsey) - Tropical Plants & More
http://www.tropicalplantsandmo...
I don't have gray hair, I have wisdom-highlights. I must be very wise.
Name: Carol
Santa Ana, ca
Sunset zone 22, USDA zone 10 A.
Charter ATP Member Bookworm Hummingbirder Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Orchids Region: California
Plant Identifier
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ctcarol
Jun 15, 2019 5:32 PM CST
I can see both sides of that issue, as I once bought a Euchili citrina, bare root, that may have been illegally harvested at a show...then found I could have gotten one already mounted from Andy's, if I had known to ask for Encyclia citrina, at the same show. It's one that has been re-named multiple times. Some are good about using the old (or new) name in parenthesis on their websites, but not all, and that doesn't help the buyer at a show if they are unaware of the change.
Name: Joshua
Melbourne, Victoria, Australia (Zone 10b)
Köppen Climate Zone Cfb
Region: Australia Bookworm Cat Lover Lilies Orchids Irises
Seed Starter Annuals Container Gardener Garden Photography Forum moderator Avid Green Pages Reviewer
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Australis
Jun 15, 2019 8:37 PM CST

Plants SuperMod

BigBill said:There is one very silly thing that has happened here and it only adds to further confusion.
From what I now realize, you mean to tell me that some "Orchid Idiot" has seen fit to use 'Little Sweetscent' as a clonal name within this Nestor, anosmum, aphyllum complex?? That is asinine!! No wonder there is confusion!

But then let me add that I find the practice of orchid labels to be one huge DISASTER. Varieties dropped, quotations added, deleted, miss spellings, letters left out, letters added, letters mistaken for something else. Is it any wonder that there are unexplained phenomena that constantly crop up?
Then you compound it by a very limited level of knowledge regarding Genus/Species/Variety/Form and Clonal Name! A simple "o" for an "a" can lead to who knows what.
I think I am going to sit back and grow fungus instead!!! Rolling on the floor laughing D'Oh!
Let me see, moisture, a dark damp basement, inertia! Check.


Yep! This is a major factor in why Orchids were originally ignored when the NGA (then ATP) database was set up. Non-standard naming and many naming issues! Keeping it all straight can be a challenge and I'm sure I make mistakes regarding the identity of plants from time to time. I go back and fix them when I become aware, but there will be ones that I've missed.
Plant Authorities: Catalogue of Life (Species) --- International Cultivar Registration Authorities (Cultivars) --- RHS Orchid Register --- RHS Lilium Register
My Notes: Orchid Genera HTML PDF Excel --- Lilium Traits HTML PDF --- Lilium Species Crosses HTML PDF Excel --- Lilium Species Diagram
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Name: Patty
Sarasota, Florida (Zone 9b)
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SarasotaPatty
Jun 30, 2019 6:27 PM CST
I hesitate to jump into this dendrobium mess, especially since I don't care about names or tags or showing things, but here goes anyway...

When I got my anosmum from Jim Roberts of Florida Suncoast Orchids I also got what is now aphyllum...at the time he called that one (lighter pink with cream) cucullatum...I only remember this so well because another Orchid Society member argued with me about it, so I called Jim over (he was there that night) and let him deal with it...

So maybe, if you guys need another expert opinion on this, besides Bill, you could reach out to Jim...or...Mac of Mac's Orchid's, who specializes in dendrobiums, and I have now gotten a number of anosmum 'hybrids' from him...the all white one, the white with purple one...so you maybe could reach out to him as another source if you feel the need.


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Name: Carol
Santa Ana, ca
Sunset zone 22, USDA zone 10 A.
Charter ATP Member Bookworm Hummingbirder Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Orchids Region: California
Plant Identifier
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ctcarol
Jun 30, 2019 6:51 PM CST
Oh, Patty, you're brave, jumping in to this. I don't show, so it doesn't concern me except for Database entry. Frankly, I find the Dendrobium family to be the hardest to figure out, as the different types have different needs.
Name: Big Bill
Livonia, Michigan (Zone 6a)
American Orchid Society Judge
Region: United States of America Critters Allowed Growing under artificial light Echinacea Hostas Region: Michigan
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BigBill
Jun 30, 2019 6:55 PM CST
I appreciate your take on this Patty. Jim Roberts knows something about this issue but Mac would know more. One place of origin for this group is the Philippines. Macs wife is native born.
I think that he might know more then Jim would. He regularly imports from there and visits his in-laws on a regular basis.
But when it comes to this controversy or situation the authority has to be Kew in England. And after them, the AOS to a lesser extent.
There just has to be a bottom line, a go to expert. And as far as my judging goes, my orchid collection goes, my common sense goes, I'll stick with Kew. That is their job.
As a judge, I must keep abreast of the current changes in nomenclature. I may not agree with them, but I CANT ignore them!
Now in college, Botany was my minor, Wildlife my major. My Botany course load had only a few plant taxonomy courses. I know my way around plant taxonomy identification keys, what to look for, I am familiar with the terminology.
I would assume that there are Taxonomy people at Kew far more qualified then me, then Jim, then Mac. I am not trying to influence any ones opinion on matters of taxonomy or of identification but I know who the recognized authority is. I must follow that.
Everyone else is free to form their own opinions, beliefs.
I also know the vendors, sales people, freely put "labels" or give plants "new names", for reasons that I am not privy to and I can only speculate on.
I would like to think there is good reason rather one of trying to generate a new revenue stream. To place a name on a species without proper taxonomic description or research is INVALID and unacceptable.
Everyone in Florida should be award of this regarding Phragmipefium kovachii several years back. People got jail time for that, jobs were lost!
When you grow orchids, it is all about the ROOTS!!!
[Last edited by BigBill - Jun 30, 2019 7:06 PM (+)]
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Name: Patty
Sarasota, Florida (Zone 9b)
Orchids Plumerias Tropicals Garden Photography Birds Garden Art
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SarasotaPatty
Jul 1, 2019 7:40 AM CST
I bow to your wisdom, Bill, and will now back away slowly...... I tip my hat to you.

The whole thing just gives me a headache anyway! Confused
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Name: Big Bill
Livonia, Michigan (Zone 6a)
American Orchid Society Judge
Region: United States of America Critters Allowed Growing under artificial light Echinacea Hostas Region: Michigan
Butterflies Lover of wildlife (Raccoon badge) Orchids Cat Lover Birds Bee Lover
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BigBill
Jul 1, 2019 7:50 AM CST
Thanks Patty! But it is not wisdom really. I think of it as "Old Experience"!
Just continue doing what you do.
When you grow orchids, it is all about the ROOTS!!!
Name: lindsey
wesley chapel, fl
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Orchids Photo Contest Winner 2021
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sugarcane
Jul 1, 2019 9:36 AM CST
...and I was just getting ready to revisit my Dendrobium tags.
Den. pierriardii
Den. Nestor
Den. superbum
Den. anosmum (sp?) X spuper nestor
Den. superbum x parishii

Maybe I will just put Dendrobium on all of them? Hilarious!
lindsey

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