Roses forum→Preen Weed Preventer

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(Zone 5b)
Roses
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Jack01
Jun 28, 2019 9:36 PM CST
I have been constantly pulling weed in my rose bed.
Always looking for a solution to this problem.

Today I found " Preen Weed Preventer" in store.

This seems it will work to prevent the weeds, before I use this, anyone here used this ?
Is it safe to use around rose bushes?

I did search on this forum but could not find any info on Preen Weed Preventer
Zone 9, Sunset Zone 9 (Zone 9b)
Roses
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Mustbnuts
Jun 29, 2019 3:34 AM CST
I don't have weeds in my garden by simply mulching three inches around my plants. No chemicals. Nothing harmful to the environment. It keeps weeds out and it eventually breaks down to enrich my terrible soil. Keeps moisture in the soil, where it belongs, which is helpful if you are under water restrictions (which I am). To get rid of nasty weeds (such as oxalis), I wet the area, cover it with cardboard (which I wet down until it is soaked) and then cover with three inches of mulch. Earthworms love it and the oxalis is gone.
Name: Arturo Tarak
Bariloche, Rio Negro, Argentin (Zone 8a)
Roses Dahlias Irises Plant Lover: Loves 'em all!
hampartsum
Jun 29, 2019 9:24 AM CST
@Mustbnuts. I was wondering if you ever had to handle quackgrass
Quackgrass (Elymus repens)
I adhere to the no chemical option but I'm not sure that my last year's winter mulching was adequate enough around my roses. Do you think that the cardboard option plus a thick 3 inch thick mulch will do the trick. That grass is possibly my worst weed in my garden followed by wood sorrel. For the time being I pretend that I can cohabit with it....(this said not with great conviction Whistling ) as I see how it takes over every single inch of available space between my rose bushes. They get the pull and toss treatment but I would much prefer if they weren't there from the start... Rolling my eyes. I appreciate your comments.
Arturo
Coastal Southern California (Zone 13a)
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jerijen
Jun 29, 2019 11:00 AM CST
We've tried it -- but it probably depends on what "weeds" you have.

We have rampant feral Bermuda Grass. Horrible horrible stuff, planted many decades ago, and resistant to anything short of an atomic bomb. Even if you were to use Roundup, the "eradication" would be temporary.

We are on a little private Lane -- and while it IS paved with asphalt, the edges are a bit thin, and in those areas, or in cracks where asphalt meets concrete, the damned stuff is coming up. So, DH is going to spray with a formula of white vinegar, salt/epsom salts, with a tblspn of detergent as a spreader-sticker -- one of our neighbors is going to do her area, too.

But I would not use this where we grow plants.
Name: Arturo Tarak
Bariloche, Rio Negro, Argentin (Zone 8a)
Roses Dahlias Irises Plant Lover: Loves 'em all!
hampartsum
Jun 29, 2019 11:20 AM CST
@jerijen Thanks Jeri for your alternative! I suppose that our quackgrass is the equivalent of your Bermuda grass...THEY ARE INVASIVE!!!. I suppose that my choice is just to regularly pull it around my bushes and toss it to our sheep mangers...at least something else gets benefit of its presence ( something that I do as a default procedure)...however if some genius finds how to check them he will get my highest approval for the highest award nomination possible... Green Grin!
Coastal Southern California (Zone 13a)
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jerijen
Jun 29, 2019 4:20 PM CST
If ONLY I had some sheep!
Name: Arturo Tarak
Bariloche, Rio Negro, Argentin (Zone 8a)
Roses Dahlias Irises Plant Lover: Loves 'em all!
hampartsum
Jun 29, 2019 4:48 PM CST
Yes, quite well separated from anything else that grows...they are like vacuum cleaners. Only certain weeds that they recognize as toxic are allowed to grow. They munch pine needles and Arizona cypress scales, eat brewers barley, any garden leftovers, all vegetable harvest leftovers, and even all the weeds growing in any bed. They find rose hips delectable... Rolling my eyes. is exactly the expression when they find them. So the farm property has a sheep compartment and the rest for where plants are allowed to flourish...my problem is that quack grass grows in the second partition Glare ...
Zone 9, Sunset Zone 9 (Zone 9b)
Roses
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Mustbnuts
Jun 29, 2019 6:43 PM CST
I don't have Quackgrass (thank the Lord). I did have Bermuda, nutsedge and Crab grass (but no more!). Quackgrass is a whole other animal. It spreads by rhizomes and seeds. Its roots are deep as well. We do have it in California (a foreign invader weed that someone brought in) but I have not personally dealt with it. It can be a problem for the agriculture industry. The only thing I would be concerned about Arturo in feeding it to your sheep is that they might poop the seeds and you would still have a problem with it. Since I also don't have sheep, I don't know if that is a valid concern or not. Quackgrass is also a perennial which complicates things.

Here is a way to try to control it. I got this info from the UC IPM website. QUACKGRASS is a problem in the potato-growing areas in northern California. Its rhizomes may penetrate potato tubers, reducing their quality. It can be controlled, but not eradicated, with a preplant application of EPTC. Work the area to be treated thoroughly to cut quackgrass rhizomes into small pieces before applying the herbicide. Mix EPTC into the soil by discing 6 inches (15 cm) deep in two directions. This usually controls quackgrass for one season and reduces rhizomes. Fall treatments with EPTC may provide additional control.

Before potatoes are planted, use glyphosate to control actively growing quackgrass. Apply glyphosate to quackgrass that is at least 8 to 10 inches tall. For complete control, repeated applications may be necessary. Wait at least 5 to 7 days before preparing seedbeds. After planting, if quackgrass is a problem, sethoxydim (Poast) may be used. Two sequential treatments may be necessary.
Name: Arturo Tarak
Bariloche, Rio Negro, Argentin (Zone 8a)
Roses Dahlias Irises Plant Lover: Loves 'em all!
hampartsum
Jun 29, 2019 6:59 PM CST
@mustbnuts Thank You! Thank you so much !
I was trying to avoid using glyphosate (Roundup).... Sad
Well, yes I've seen this horrible beast piercing a potato tuber just across and appearing in the other side, as if the tuber were non existent!
We prepare our potato beds with a fork and pull out the rhyzomes as early as we can in spring. Somehow in well prepared beds it isn't such a nuissance. But in perennial beds, rose gardens, rock gardens.... Sighing! How does one use glyphosate in such conditions? Its all over the place, it is drought resistant and flood resistant and everything in between....
With my sheep spreading seeds I won't worry since if left as a stand we harvest it before it shows seed heads. At least it is a fairly nutritious forb for animals ( which I guess why it was introduced from somewhere in Central Asia). But definitely it is a fierceful opponent to my gardening pursuits... Shrug!
Arturo
Zone 9, Sunset Zone 9 (Zone 9b)
Roses
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Mustbnuts
Jun 30, 2019 8:12 AM CST
Glad you found this helpful. It will be interesting to see what changes on the UC Master Gardener IPM website after July 1st. A notice was sent to us in May or so stating that as of July 1st, we can no longer recommend glyphosate as a "last resort" or as part of an IPM, as a weed killer. I don't blame you for not wanting to use it. One of my teachers stated that if you mulch at least three inches, the sun cannot penetrate through the mulch to allow the weeds to grow. I have used the cardboard and three to four inches of mulch to kill the numerous oxalis, crabgrass, nut grass, spotted spurge, bermuda grass and other weeds in my yard. Weed cloth did nothing for me.
So far, I have had good luck with my method. I have used vinegar in the cracks in my concrete to also get rid of weeds and that works great in the summertime. Between the hotter than hades sun and the vinegar, they are gone. Of course, you can't use vinegar on your planting beds, but it just was another experiment for me to see if it worked.
Name: Arturo Tarak
Bariloche, Rio Negro, Argentin (Zone 8a)
Roses Dahlias Irises Plant Lover: Loves 'em all!
hampartsum
Jun 30, 2019 9:17 AM CST
@Mustbnuts, given my real options, for my beds I will try your cardboard plus thick mulch method. I can do it right now in winter? ....I don't need to mulch my roses for winter dieback prevention. Our lows although below freezing are just like kind caress in comparison what most northern gardeners face. So I haven't mulched this year but have quite a lot of bagged dry oak leaves stacked in large bags that can be of good use. Next question, does cardboard eventually desintegrate like the rest of organics? Or do you remove it when half rotten and replace it with new one at some point in the growing season. I suppose that drip lines should D'Oh! stay in place under the cardboard... Smiling Thank you so much for leading me to this option... Thank You! I'll surely report back if it works, because that grass is such a nuisance! Although you are spared from it, it seems quite widely distributed so there might be more than a reader that can derive benefit... Crossing Fingers!
Thank you again Thank You! Group hug
Arturo
Zone 9, Sunset Zone 9 (Zone 9b)
Roses
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Mustbnuts
Jun 30, 2019 1:13 PM CST
I don't think it matters when you do this. It takes a while for the cardboard to break down, so probably the sooner the better if you plan to plant the area in the spring/summer. Pull the biggest weeds (as much as you can). Thoroughly wet the area you want to mulch. Place down the cardboard and then thoroughly wet the cardboard (both sides). Make sure the cardboard overlaps at the edges. Cover with 3-5 inches of a wood type mulch. Wet the mulch. Leave everything alone. If you want to use compost instead of the mulch, you can, but I find the mulch to be cheaper and it works great. The cardboard eventually breaks down (earthworms love it!). If you see the weed on the edge of where you placed the cardboard, pull it out and make sure the mulch is covering that area. It will take a few months for things to break down but you will have nice fertile soil afterwards and hopefully, no weeds! For me, I think the thicker the mulch the better. You want to block the sunlight which weeds need to grow.

Here is a video on getting rid of quackgrass which is narrated by a drone. The first part of the video mentions the cardboard treatment.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?...



Minnesota (Zone 3b)
RpR
Jun 30, 2019 1:15 PM CST
hampartsum said:@Mustbnuts. I was wondering if you ever had to handle quackgrass
Quackgrass (Elymus repens)
I adhere to the no chemical option but I'm not sure that my last year's winter mulching was adequate enough around my roses. Do you think that the cardboard option plus a thick 3 inch thick mulch will do the trick. That grass is possibly my worst weed in my garden followed by wood sorrel. For the time being I pretend that I can cohabit with it....(this said not with great conviction Whistling ) as I see how it takes over every single inch of available space between my rose bushes. They get the pull and toss treatment but I would much prefer if they weren't there from the start... Rolling my eyes. I appreciate your comments.
Arturo

You will never get rid of quack grass by pulling , ever.
Sharon ripped the tops off it in the day lilies and now it spread to such a large area I will have dig up one half of the garden.
Even poisoning did not get it all this spring as the ones that were not attached via rhizomes to the one poisoned just spread farther.
Dig down if you can, often very deep, to the actual root, and put systemic poison on that. Wait to see how much that kills and repeat till you can just dig out the remainder.

The Oxalis, except for the disease it can transmit not a real problem it is kind of pretty it you have both green and maroon, some thing I have been fighting/ignoring for decades.
In the roses mulch/compost usually works best.

Sharon used Preen in some areas and it does work OK to a degree.

[Last edited by RpR - Jun 30, 2019 1:27 PM (+)]
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Coastal Southern California (Zone 13a)
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jerijen
Jun 30, 2019 6:20 PM CST
Oh, and I really like Oxalis! We have the usual single variety, and a double one. (It may be O. 'Double Trouble'.)

My husband always pulls it out while I'm still enjoying it. :-(
Name: Lola
Tasmania
Keeps Sheep Roses Cottage Gardener Garden Photography Birds Farmer
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LolaTasmania
Jun 30, 2019 6:36 PM CST
Over two years ago I poured boiling water on an ant nest and there has been a dead patch of grass there ever since. I now pour boiling water on my gravel path and in between paving stones to control weeds instead of using poison.
Name: Rosemary
Sacramento, CA (Zone 9b)
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reh0622
Jul 2, 2019 1:49 PM CST
So what do we do with Bermuda grass that's severely invaded a rose bed, like growing up inside and out of the center of the rose canes? Three inches of mulch is not going to get rid of it. I've read that Bermuda grass roots can grow under cement for six feet before re-ermerging and can grow 2 and 1/2 feet deep. Are there grass killers that are harmless to roses?
[Last edited by reh0622 - Jul 2, 2019 2:16 PM (+)]
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Name: Christopher
New Brunswick, NJ, USA (Zone 7a)
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AquaEyes
Jul 2, 2019 3:00 PM CST
I'm not seeing it mentioned above, so I'm mentioning it here -- Preen is a pre-emergent herbicide that doesn't kill plants, but rather prevents seeds from germinating into new plants. It's a helpful tool if you're overrun with weeds that keep self-seeding so that you can break the cycle, but you'll still have to tackle the existing weed plants. Oh, and if you have any self-seeding annuals in the garden, be aware that using Preen will keep them from coming back -- so you might want to save some seed-heads and sow them in pots before planting out in the garden.

I battle Oxalis at my job almost daily. "Getting it out at the root" is something not very practical in a 1-acre formal rose garden -- I know, I tried. It took hours to get a relatively small section done, but as I pulled out the plants, seeds scattered everywhere. It was just a week later -- after a lot of rain -- when those beds looked like I never even touched them. So, now I just use a hoop-hoe and scrape them away, which gets about 85% of them but in a much shorter time, so I can cover a larger area and feel as if I accomplished something -- until, again, the next round of seeds germinate.

I have a plan of attack to get me out of this situation for next year, but because this is a public garden, I can't start this until after the Autumn flush. But, for passing something on, this is what I'll be doing. First, I'm going to scrape away the existing mulch, lay down cardboard in the spaces between the roses, and use newspaper around the roses. Then replace the mulch, and add a pre-emergent herbicide like Preen, or whatever I'm able to get. In the Spring, I'll be sure to re-apply the pre-emergent herbicide, and continue hoeing whatever I find through the season. Hopefully, this will result in killing or weakening existing weeds, and break the cycle of their offspring coming back to haunt me.

Of course, this is how I'm perceiving the Oxalis. Most park patrons barely notice it -- especially the shorter-growing red-leafed form. Well, that is, until it flowers.... But I can't keep spending so much time reacting to it when there's much else I'd rather be tackling in that garden, so I need to take a different approach for next year. Feel free to steal any bit of that plan for yourself.

:-)

~Christopher
Name: seil
St Clair Shores, MI (Zone 6a)
Roses Garden Photography Region: Michigan
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seilMI
Jul 2, 2019 4:31 PM CST
Preen does not kill weeds. It's a pre-emergent that prevents SEEDS from germinating. It will prevent seeds from sprouting but any weeds already growing will live on. If you use it along with weeding it will keep more weeds from starting and, hopefully, eventually the weeds should disappear, Hilarious!
Zone 9, Sunset Zone 9 (Zone 9b)
Roses
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Mustbnuts
Jul 4, 2019 5:49 AM CST
I will just state that for me, the three inches (minimum) and the cardboard has worked wonders for me. My instructors for my classes have stated that sunlight can't reach through the three inches of mulch and therefore, the weed won't grow. I have gotten rid of my crabgrass, etc., through this method. I will also state that I had crabgrass and other weeds growing through my Pink Muhly grass that were so bad, that I took out those beautiful plants and did the cardboard and mulch to get rid of the weeds. No more problems with weeds. However, unfortunately, I don't have a large lot or land that I have to contend with.

Unfortunately, I didn't replace those plants as they got too big for the area where I was growing them. Plus my neighbor (unfortunately we have zero lot lines here) would come and shear off the edges of the grasses so not a single blade would "invade" "her side of the yard" (won't even go into the property line dispute stuff with her). Her shearing of the grasses made them unbalanced and look awful). Ah, yes, property without close neighbors would be wonderful, but won't happen in my lifetime, unfortunately.
Name: Arturo Tarak
Bariloche, Rio Negro, Argentin (Zone 8a)
Roses Dahlias Irises Plant Lover: Loves 'em all!
hampartsum
Jul 4, 2019 6:34 AM CST
I keep viewing the various issues that pop up around weeds, roses and other perennials, in this thread and others. I haven't tried the cardboard plus mulch. After giving quite a lot of thought ( because any major project implies major work) I arrived to the decision make it work. So I will stick to the carboard plus mulch method.
1.Roses can withstand thick mulching because their living parts are quite above the light black out layer.
2. Other shrubby/bushy perennials the same
3. Herbaceous perennials. I suspect that for most they will have to be lifted potted and kept apart until the full bed is free of the obnoxious weeds ( in my case quack grass , others bermuda grass and so on). In general these weeds are mainly worrisome because they store energy in underground rhyzomes that allows them to keep living for lengthy periods of time in a latent situation. But if one can keep the darkness going on for ever then all unwanted weeds will eventually dissappear. It is just a question of patience only. Yes the underside of the roses will be permanently some type of mulch instead of visible soil. I personally don't care if I see bare ground or mulch. I definitely prefer no weeds.
4. Once a year at least the layout may need to be removed to add manure and incorporate the rotten mulch into the soil.
5. Since I haven't tried it at all , I really don't know how often does the bed require the dark cardboard , once it has efectively removed these really noxious weeds.
6. @reh0622 Those weeds growing just under the roses, can be smothered too with this same method. Instead of cardboard stuffing thickly shredded newspaper/ brown bag paper (really thick so that even a single blade intending to grow out from it has not chance to get anylight.). (see also @AquaEyes says just near above: <lay down cardboard in the spaces between the roses, and use newspaper around the roses>
7. Once the bed has been freed of weeds, then companion plants can be placed back again making sure that their roots balls do not contain any unwanted rhyzomes( my quack grass roots are very easy to distinguish). These companion perennials can be placed in holes carved into the cardboard layout.
Summing up, @mustbnuts I really want to thank you for pointing out this method. Thank You! I tip my hat to you. It is lengthy, but very logically consistent and if once understood the underlying principles, one can become imaginative and continue improving it with added details.
Arturo
PS needless to add but always a good reminder, its absolutely environmentally friendly

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