Roses forum→Thornless rose changing color and developing thorns

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Cleveland TN
hopkimy
Jul 15, 2019 3:25 PM CST
I had a beautiful lilac colored thornless rose. It has developed thorns and now has red roses. Is it possible that it crossed with a red knockout rose bush that is nearby?
Name: Daisy I
Reno, Nv (Zone 6b)
Not all who wander are lost
Garden Sages Plant Identifier
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DaisyI
Jul 15, 2019 6:43 PM CST
No, but it is possible your rose is grafted. If some of the shoots are coming up from the soil instead of the stem above the graft, the roots are taking over. The traditional root stock is a red rose that is extremely vigorous, and very thorny. If you don't cut the suckers out, your thornless rose will be lost.

Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and proclaiming...."WOW What a Ride!!" -Mark Frost

President: Orchid Society of Northern Nevada
Webmaster: osnnv.org
Name: Luis
Hurst, TX, U.S.A. (Zone 8a)
Dog Lover Region: Texas Salvias Roses Hibiscus Plumerias
luis_pr
Jul 15, 2019 6:50 PM CST
... if it wasn't lost already during winter...
Name: Daisy I
Reno, Nv (Zone 6b)
Not all who wander are lost
Garden Sages Plant Identifier
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DaisyI
Jul 15, 2019 6:54 PM CST
Good point. Its why I only plant self-rooted roses.
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and proclaiming...."WOW What a Ride!!" -Mark Frost

President: Orchid Society of Northern Nevada
Webmaster: osnnv.org
Coastal Southern California (Zone 13a)
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jerijen
Jul 20, 2019 3:32 PM CST
There are some roses that simply don't perform well, unless budded ... but if they CAN make it on their own roots, I personally prefer it.

hopkimy --
Your rose, yes, may have been budded to 'Dr. Huey' rootstock, and as Daisy suggests, that rootstock may be taking over.
Huey isn't the ONLY rose used as Rootstock, but it is the most-common, in the U.S.
Learn more about 'Dr. Huey' at:
https://www.helpmefind.com/gar...

If you think that at least part of your lavender rose is still living, and you want to save it, you will have to remove all of the canes of 'Dr. Huey' down below ground -- right where they emerge from the roots. If not, it will just keep growin' and growin' -- and in your conditions, it's going to blackspot like crazy.

If you think the lavender rose is gone, I recommend that you dig the Good Doctor up and get rid of him, before he reaches the size of a house.
Name: Seth n Sam .....
W.V. (Zone 6a)
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Weluvroses
Jul 20, 2019 6:02 PM CST
That's what I dont get about my Dr. Its loaded with thorns. I guess maybe the seed I happen to select at seedling isnt all Dr. Huey. The flower was pollinated by a different rose. So maybe it's like half n half. That's why it has thorns and possibly now on its 4th year alive 3rd year in the ground this year it threw flowers more than the one time in the beginning of spring. The only differences I see is thorns, very very strong fragrance, and now has flowered twice. I guess not flowered bc it's only 3 flowers this time. And the flowers are darker than I've seen online.


jerijen said:There are some roses that simply don't perform well, unless budded ... but if they CAN make it on their own roots, I personally prefer it.

hopkimy --
Your rose, yes, may have been budded to 'Dr. Huey' rootstock, and as Daisy suggests, that rootstock may be taking over.
Huey isn't the ONLY rose used as Rootstock, but it is the most-common, in the U.S.
Learn more about 'Dr. Huey' at:
https://www.helpmefind.com/gar...

If you think that at least part of your lavender rose is still living, and you want to save it, you will have to remove all of the canes of 'Dr. Huey' down below ground -- right where they emerge from the roots. If not, it will just keep growin' and growin' -- and in your conditions, it's going to blackspot like crazy.

If you think the lavender rose is gone, I recommend that you dig the Good Doctor up and get rid of him, before he reaches the size of a house.


Coastal Southern California (Zone 13a)
Image
jerijen
Jul 20, 2019 6:37 PM CST
Oh, I've seen Huey with prickles. 'Dr. Huey' has been bred for decades ONLY as rootstock. It's been selected for vigor, rather than any other characteristics. It's probable that a series of slight mutations has crept in.

Likewise, look at 'Gloire des Rosomanes' ("Ragged Robin") -- which likewise was used as rootstock for a long time. You really see a wide variation in characteristics, from one rootstock reversion to another.

Alternatively, I suppose you could have a different red rose used as rootstock. I bought a rose years ago that turned out to have been budded onto David Austin's 'Claire Rose.'
Name: Seth n Sam .....
W.V. (Zone 6a)
Image
Weluvroses
Jul 20, 2019 7:03 PM CST
I thought I read that it had few to none. As in the way of thorns. And the one I have is loaded to the brim.

But by the look of the flower. I'd say its Dr. Huey. Wouldnt you? I had several seeds sprout. But this was the best one of the bunch. And it has shown to be super vigorous. And very heavily scented.
Thumb of 2019-07-21/Weluvroses/e95e01



jerijen said:Oh, I've seen Huey with prickles. 'Dr. Huey' has been bred for decades ONLY as rootstock. It's been selected for vigor, rather than any other characteristics. It's probable that a series of slight mutations has crept in.

Likewise, look at 'Gloire des Rosomanes' ("Ragged Robin") -- which likewise was used as rootstock for a long time. You really see a wide variation in characteristics, from one rootstock reversion to another.

Alternatively, I suppose you could have a different red rose used as rootstock. I bought a rose years ago that turned out to have been budded onto David Austin's 'Claire Rose.'


Name: Rosemary
Sacramento, CA (Zone 9b)
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reh0622
Jul 21, 2019 10:35 AM CST
I've never heard of Dr. Huey being "heavily scented." To me it has a very light, and most of the time no fragrance.
Name: Luis
Hurst, TX, U.S.A. (Zone 8a)
Dog Lover Region: Texas Salvias Roses Hibiscus Plumerias
luis_pr
Jul 21, 2019 11:06 AM CST
I have not smelled it. The flowers are nice and turn shades of red. They start like Weluvroses's picture. Sometimes they turn dark purplish, almost blue, as they age.

Hope it is not getting a case of RRD.
[Last edited by luis_pr - Jul 21, 2019 4:08 PM (+)]
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SW Ohio River Valley (Zone 6b)
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vaporvac
Jul 21, 2019 12:35 PM CST
If it's not a clone, it would have the genes from both parents. Even if selfed it has many genes in its backround that can generate diversity.

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