Irises forum: Comparison of "Most Popular" Iris to "Most Relevant"

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Name: Shawn S.
Hampton, Virginia (Zone 8b)
Butterflies Morning Glories Annuals Irises Dahlias Zinnias
Orchids Region: United States of America Peonies
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ShawnSteve
Jul 16, 2019 5:56 PM CST
I just checked both lists, of Iris, since I figured it may not have been compared, or discussed in several years time. ( Unless it had been asked, prior to my joining.) The only real difference, between the two lists, was that 'Indian Chief' was more "Relevant" than the more "Popular" ,
'Sea Power'.
With 'Immortality' in first place. Even 'Edith Wolford', came in second place.. Have a look at our Database & compare, the similarity in the Iris genus, between "Most Popular" & "Relevance" Search Results are & you will see they are the same , except for those last two (Unless, I'm mistaken.) Therefore, even 'Cat's Eye' is more popular & relevant, than currently is 'Decadence (#11) or 'Montmarte (#12)

While 'Florentine Silk' (#6) is just ahead of 'Stairway To Heaven' ( #7) Have a look yourself, & see how adding so many photos of certain Iris, with having been around longer & therefore more photos & "thumbs up" has resulted in both their "Popularity & Relevance". Obviously the newer Iris have fewer photos & therefore fewer, "Thumbs Up", due to being newer, with fewer owning them (& typically, slightly more expensive) or ever yet, having had the opportunity, to even take a photo yet, of the flower, to add to the Database. What's "wrong' with the "picture", I ask ?
Name: Shawn S.
Hampton, Virginia (Zone 8b)
Butterflies Morning Glories Annuals Irises Dahlias Zinnias
Orchids Region: United States of America Peonies
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ShawnSteve
Jul 17, 2019 10:51 AM CST
On, May 9th, 2015 there was a post, named "We're Celebrating Iris'es This Week !" by dave, for a "microbage" & he searched the Database & posted the most "Popular Iris", over four years ago... Guess what was listed . as number one, that year ? 'Immortality' was in first pace, maybe even due to the name, implying "living forever" with a pure white flower color (self) representing "purity," while having the ability to rebloom...
Of surprise, was that Blackberry Lily (Iris domestica) was in 2nd, probably due to seed trading & their unique seeds, easily produced & most likely frequently traded...

In 3rd place, in 2015 was 'Batik' & Fourth, was held by 'Cat's Eye' & in Fifth, was 'Sea Power,' 6th place, held by 'Dusky Challenger.' Of note, back then, there was no mentioning of either 'Edith Wolford' or 'Thornbird' which are now 2nd and fourth, respectively, currently , as most "Popular" & 'Relevant" in same placement positions. Whereas 'Stairway To Heaven' took 7th & 8th place was held by 'Silverado'

& 9th by 'Decadence', whereas, 'Florentine Silk' didn't even place until #14 .Now, if one were to compare our Database results, 'Florentine Silk' now holds 6th place, 'Stairway To Heaven' holds
7th ...While if you'd examined the Popularity of the AIS most recent 'Popular Vote' listings, I'm sure you would see a very different "picture" represented of Iris, cast by members' "Votes", in that list, when, or if you compared it, to what is seen here currently in our Database, listed as "Relevant', or most "Popular' today.

Because, now, even while 'Immortality' still holds First here..
Since then , now 'Edith Wolford ' is in 2nd place , with 'Batik' still in 3rd & 'Thornbird' in Fourth (possibly due , to during repeated discussions of both ''Edith Wolford' & 'Thornbird' , to regularly post & repost the old & new photos of either , or both of these two, Iris, in particular on a rather continued basis, over the pas four years & those that really appreciate them, often tending to also give them a"thumbs up' each time a new photo was posted, every time, for both of them , including adding many photos to the Database, of the two of them..... Do you possibly think, it may be so?

While now, by comparison to AIS, 'Dusky Challenger "popularity voting, that Iris doesn't even "rate" at all any more, in popularity here, on the first page of "results.". Now, does any one seem to get a better "picture' of what I'm even talking about ?
Perhaps, after this rather in depth explanation, after so many have looked at this post, but have yet to even respond, it may help you to better understand, just what I'm talking about. just a little bit better now, as I'd expected at least, some response...
Name: Bonnie Sojourner
Harris Brake Lake, Arkansas (Zone 7a)
Magnolia zone
Region: United States of America Region: Arkansas Master Gardener: Arkansas Irises Plant and/or Seed Trader Moon Gardener
Garden Ideas: Master Level Dragonflies Bulbs Garden Art Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Gardens in Buckets
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grannysgarden
Jul 17, 2019 11:19 AM CST
Thro' all the tumult and the strife I hear the music ringing; It finds an echo in my soul— How can I keep from singing?
[Last edited by grannysgarden - Jul 17, 2019 11:37 AM (+)]
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Name: Jan Wax
Mendocino County, N. CA (Zone 9a)
I'm a semi-retired studio potter.
Hummingbirder Region: California Dog Lover Irises Organic Gardener Daylilies
Dahlias Garden Art Cat Lover Vegetable Grower Birds Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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janwax
Jul 17, 2019 12:49 PM CST
Um. Shawn, I think you're pointing out that it's often a popularity contest and more people over time have collected the same iris and they like it very much and they vote for it.. So it "wins". It doesn't really reflect the newer advanced introductions, which fewer people own.
Sighing!
How do you interpret "relevance"?
A garden is fundamentally a process—there is change, and sometimes it is dying, and sometimes it is hibernating,” Tom Stuart-Smith
[Last edited by janwax - Jul 17, 2019 12:53 PM (+)]
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Name: Shawn S.
Hampton, Virginia (Zone 8b)
Butterflies Morning Glories Annuals Irises Dahlias Zinnias
Orchids Region: United States of America Peonies
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ShawnSteve
Jul 17, 2019 1:41 PM CST
Jan, I'm attempting, to determine it's "relevance'", just by the very nature of the results, given, when displayed, by the system, as being a "Relevance' result of the search, by the search of Iris using ; Iris genus' by relevance", just as you may search, "Popularity" of all the Iris genus, or if I had chosen, to do so, by, only searching "tall bearded" only, for example...Which would have been "different" than the original search method.

But, just to simplify it, keep it at genus Iris, while doing those "Searches", just like dave had probably done , in 2015, to repeat the same search...Of course, 'omitting" the first category , being, that is Iris in general that are 'uncategorized", whatsoever, at all...(simply, not being "relevant' or "popular' as a cultivar.)

As, I would assume, dave also used that very same search, of "Popularity" given, not only the "comment", yet the very nature of the results, it had included. But, I can certainly search "tall bearded" & compare that result, also, just as I did, with the above searches & see if it varies much, from those other searches, by much at all, also.
As I've listed both results, already, on paper.. of the first page, results, of each category & could very well just as easily do the same, with "tall bearded" if you;d like me to list, all the results given, for "tall bearded".
Would you care to see, if there is much difference ? I'm fairly certain "Cat's Eye', will no longer be included & only slightly change that search result.....
Name: Shawn S.
Hampton, Virginia (Zone 8b)
Butterflies Morning Glories Annuals Irises Dahlias Zinnias
Orchids Region: United States of America Peonies
Image
ShawnSteve
Jul 17, 2019 2:55 PM CST
Once I tried to do it, by "tall bearded.", with a search by 'Relevance' it no longer seems to want to do such a search, (only other, seemed to be, by alternate option, of "Alphabetical order") & can list only a general relevance for tall bearded, results, as would assume, it is the 'default mode", which I may list, secondly, just for your, for comparison.
But, still did a "Popularity" of "tall bearded Iris" , listed here, first. This , is how the following results are listed , by "Popularity" of "Tall Bearded Iris'
#1 'Immortality', #2 'Edith Wolford' #3'Thornbird', #4 'Florentine Silk'', 5 'Stairway To Heaven',
#6 'Clarence', #7 'Dusky Challenger', #8 'Celebration Song' #9 'Decadence', #10 'Montmarte'
,#11 'Beverly Sills' , #12 'Daughter Of Stars' #13 'Silverado', #14 'Haunted Heart' , #15 Starship Enterprise', #16 'Indian Chief', #17 'Sea Power' .#18 'Wintry Sky' , #19 'Absolute Treasure' , #20 'Slovak Prince'

Now, for the general results, for a "General Search" of Tall Bearded Iris here are the "Results', to compare them all, listed in order of appearance, of the first page, also..;; #1 'Piute Pass' ,(sp ?)
#2 'Texas Glory' #3' Immortality', #4 'Edith Wolford', #5 'Thornbird' #6 Florentine Silk'
#7 Stairway To Heaven' #8, ''Clarence, #9 'Dusky Challenger' , #10' Celebration Song',
#11 'Decadence', #12 'Montmarte', , #13 Beverly Sills' , #14 'Daughter Of Stars'
,# 15 ' Silverado', #16 'Haunted Heart' , #17 'Starship Enterprise' & #18 Indian Chief' #19 'Sea Power ' # 20 'Wintry Sky'

These results, are somewhat different, than when doing an overall "Relevance", search & results, as it includes some others & does a few little odd variations, of the entire lists, when compared to performing the "Search " of the entire, Iris genus, but I'm typing , while trying to fix some dinner too, & multitasking Smiling .. (missed adding, two, at end of list)
[Last edited by ShawnSteve - Jul 17, 2019 4:59 PM (+)]
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Name: Jan Wax
Mendocino County, N. CA (Zone 9a)
I'm a semi-retired studio potter.
Hummingbirder Region: California Dog Lover Irises Organic Gardener Daylilies
Dahlias Garden Art Cat Lover Vegetable Grower Birds Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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janwax
Jul 17, 2019 3:41 PM CST
Thanks, Shawn.
A garden is fundamentally a process—there is change, and sometimes it is dying, and sometimes it is hibernating,” Tom Stuart-Smith
Name: Shawn S.
Hampton, Virginia (Zone 8b)
Butterflies Morning Glories Annuals Irises Dahlias Zinnias
Orchids Region: United States of America Peonies
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ShawnSteve
Jul 17, 2019 4:01 PM CST
I should have noted which searches performed, yesterday, which gave the results of two lists. One, of "genus Iris" of most "Popular", compared to the list of 'genus Iris', most "Relevant'" using both, under the "genus Iris." Except my memory just isn't what it used to be & didn't note the list results for, which was for "Relevance" & "'Popularity" in general. But here they both, are ( & of course, it can be "repeated" & checked, for errors.)

#1 'Immortality", #2 'Edith Wolford' #3 'Batik' #4 'Thornbird, #5 'Cat's Eye' , #6 ' Florentine Silk'
#7' Stairway To Heaven', #8 'Clarence', #9 'Dusky Challenger' ,#10 'Celebration Song',
#11 'Decadence', #12 Beverly Sills', # 13 'Daughter Of Stars', #14 'Montmarte', #15 'Silverado' ,#16 'Haunted Heart', #17 'Starship Enterprise', #18 Iris pallida variegata 'Zebra' & #19 'Sea Power'

While the other results, appeared like thus, to compare the original search results to notice changes, since it was performed, in 2015. #1 'Immortality #2 'Edith Wolford' , #3 'Batik' #4 'Thornbird' #5 'Sea Power', # 6'Dusky Challenger', #7' Stairway To Heaven, #6 'Silverado',
#9 'Decadence' #10 Starship Enterprise, #11 'Queen's Circle' #12 'Gypsy Romance' ,
#13 'Happenstance' , #14 'Florentine Silk', #15 Iris siberica, #16 'Blue Beards Ghost',
#17 Paul's' Black & #18 'Sea Power.'

I think I've got that right, but my memory, just isn't quite the same, any more..., to be absolutely 100% sure ! Also, after being out in the heat, today, I just got tired..
Name: Shawn S.
Hampton, Virginia (Zone 8b)
Butterflies Morning Glories Annuals Irises Dahlias Zinnias
Orchids Region: United States of America Peonies
Image
ShawnSteve
Jul 17, 2019 4:23 PM CST
You are welcome Jan...It wasn't so much, about any "point ' being made to show discrepancies between, the AIS, & was mainly , only just to try & show everyone, that the " search ' input used, affects the output, of the list you get, as a results, of your "search method". Also, to "note" how it has changed, since 2015, by member's additions, plus photos, etc... It isn't a "competition", for "votes"...

It is an attempt to show what's most commonly selected. Now, once you've gone beyond the first page & look at results, you begin to get a sort of repetitious alphabetical results, , of newer Iris... & then another list after that , in alphabetical order, with the fewest photos &
so on, mainly of newer Iris, or those, that member's may not have photographed as much, even..

Simply ones, that haven't been ordered as much, or haven't nearly as many photos & far fewer "thumbs up" ! Because, it took me, looking up Iris, using this method to go through nearly 50 some odd pages, before I ever came across 'Adriatic Noble' !
Name: Shawn S.
Hampton, Virginia (Zone 8b)
Butterflies Morning Glories Annuals Irises Dahlias Zinnias
Orchids Region: United States of America Peonies
Image
ShawnSteve
Jul 18, 2019 5:27 AM CST
Jan, I think it actually may be, a better representation, of what's more commonly grown, in the way of Iris, determined mainly by "Search Results', of what member's here , grow, when it is by 'Relevance'. That could possibly be why, there is a difference in the lists, (for the first page) of each "results" listed, between 'Popularity" & "Relevance"... Although, it may also quite possibly show, what is more easily, widely grown & may multiply, or tend to "increase", in most areas of the U.S. ( mainly.)

Personally, I thought there are many more "white" Iris, which are better looking, than 'Immortality'. Although, I'm fairly sure, it was "promoted" quite a bit more, due to being a "re-blooming" Iris.
While I have no idea, how a certain cultivar "name" such as 'Immortality', may actually play any role or part, with it's "Popularity." Although, I tend to think, it may have actually had an effect, with 'Stairway To Heaven' !

But apparently , there were several more Iris listed ahead of 'Immortality", by way of the "General Search" results, if you have look again, & notice...No idea, what effects, any "Artificial Intelligence' may play, in any of the search results ! It seems to quite often be used rather typically, these days...
Name: Evelyn
Sierra foothills, Northern CA (Zone 8a)
Garden Procrastinator Irises Bee Lover Butterflies Plant and/or Seed Trader Region: California
Cat Lover Deer Bulbs Foliage Fan Annuals Seed Starter
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evelyninthegarden
Jul 18, 2019 5:43 AM CST
Shawn ~ Where are you doing these searches? In our database, on Google, then comparing to AIS?

Relevance vs. Popularity? What do you mean by relevance?

I am unsure of the reason of these searches and comparisons in the first place. It is possible that the reason there are so few responses to this analysis may be that we do not see what the purpose is. Confused
"Luck favors the prepared mind." - Thomas Jefferson
Name: Arlyn
Whiteside County, Illinois (Zone 5a)
Irises Beekeeper Region: Illinois Celebrating Gardening: 2015
crowrita1
Jul 18, 2019 6:17 AM CST
Confused
Name: Shawn S.
Hampton, Virginia (Zone 8b)
Butterflies Morning Glories Annuals Irises Dahlias Zinnias
Orchids Region: United States of America Peonies
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ShawnSteve
Jul 18, 2019 7:07 AM CST
It really isn't all that "complicated" as you just may be trying to "over think it" !
I did one search, specifically to get results, from this Database, as you will see, as I noted in an above post, about Dave, having posted in May 2015 with Thread titled , "We're Celebrating Iris'es This Week" for- "microbadges."

Then, performing a similar search *four years later*, posting those results here, so one may compare the same style search, again, to show how the "list" of results, have changed, since then... Simple.
Yet, decided that it would also be of even more interest, apart from the original search results of 'Iris genus " while factoring" in General " to be able to also compare results, such as by "Popularity", 'Relevance", "Tall Bearded", etc.. so that you may see the different results, if you use the Database capabilities,, here.

If you'd really wanted to "compare" it to "votes'" for "Favorite" Iris in the AIS, you most certainly can, if you'd be interested enough to do so.... I think someone even gave a link, posted in one Thread, to the AIS list results, for at least the year 2017... You'd just have to "search" for it here, that 's all. Simple enough to do, - "easy as pie." Smiling
Name: Bonnie Sojourner
Harris Brake Lake, Arkansas (Zone 7a)
Magnolia zone
Region: United States of America Region: Arkansas Master Gardener: Arkansas Irises Plant and/or Seed Trader Moon Gardener
Garden Ideas: Master Level Dragonflies Bulbs Garden Art Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Gardens in Buckets
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grannysgarden
Jul 18, 2019 9:54 AM CST
Some may care about popularity but I have never made my decisions about anything based on others votes. I am probably alone in this. I think in order to get a clear view of what does best everyone must have the same irises, feed them the same nutrients, make sure they are watered on schedule and grow them in the same medium. Then we would vote. There would be a wide variance on what is the most beautiful and what does the best due to the area/climate we grow them in and what appeals to each individual. So, if it appeals to me, if it survives in my garden, it gets MY 'vote'. And when it comes down to it..... my vote is the only one that counts for me. Smiling
Thro' all the tumult and the strife I hear the music ringing; It finds an echo in my soul— How can I keep from singing?
Name: Evelyn
Sierra foothills, Northern CA (Zone 8a)
Garden Procrastinator Irises Bee Lover Butterflies Plant and/or Seed Trader Region: California
Cat Lover Deer Bulbs Foliage Fan Annuals Seed Starter
Image
evelyninthegarden
Jul 18, 2019 10:55 AM CST
grannysgarden said:Some may care about popularity but I have never made my decisions about anything based on others votes. I am probably alone in this. I think in order to get a clear view of what does best everyone must have the same irises, feed them the same nutrients, make sure they are watered on schedule and grow them in the same medium. Then we would vote. There would be a wide variance on what is the most beautiful and what does the best due to the area/climate we grow them in and what appeals to each individual. So, if it appeals to me, if it survives in my garden, it gets MY 'vote'. And when it comes down to it..... my vote is the only one that counts for me. Smiling


Bonnie ~ I agree
"Luck favors the prepared mind." - Thomas Jefferson
Name: Shawn S.
Hampton, Virginia (Zone 8b)
Butterflies Morning Glories Annuals Irises Dahlias Zinnias
Orchids Region: United States of America Peonies
Image
ShawnSteve
Jul 18, 2019 10:57 AM CST
Bonnie, I actually agree with you ! I don't buy an Iris because of it's particular name, or how many "votes", it received, either .(But, it is perfectly o.k. with me, if someone else does that..) I tend to buy, what appeals to my eyes & if it has any Awards, then all the better !

But what others also find "appealing" at times, tends to also be with some particular ones, which just may fit some "standard concept" of what is considered to be a beautiful Iris bloom, in the color/s , proportion, etc... that many others find attractive, too.

Yet , I've noticed there a few I like just because of the unusual certain bitone color combinations, that , although the bloom may not be exactly the perfect idea of the "standard", typical "form" most would expect, , or the concept of what an "ideal' bloom should, or ought to look like, still enjoy it, for those specific color combinations.. I've only found one, by recommendation, that I actually found to be truly irresistible... While, some others, are obviously so popular, that I like them, also, just as they do.

I don't think that is by "happenstance', either but something actually about it, which seems to have sort of an "Universal Appeal', or "timeless", look about it, shared by many others, too. Sort of like, somehow, having an "ideal appearance," about the flower blossom.
Name: Leslie
Durham, NC (Zone 8a)
Region: North Carolina Irises Cat Lover Garden Photography Enjoys or suffers hot summers Peonies
Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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Lestv
Jul 18, 2019 2:15 PM CST
I am finding all of this too overthought for me. If I like an iris, I buy it. I really don't give a hoot if anyone else likes it. If it is pleasing to me it goes in the garden. There is no "ideal" iris to me because there are now so many forms. Nor do I care if my iris are timeless. That is like defining ideal beauty in people. Not everyone is ever going to agree. And I am okay with that.
"The chimera is a one time happenstance event where the plant has a senior moment and forgets what it is doing." - Paul Black
[Last edited by Lestv - Jul 18, 2019 4:21 PM (+)]
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Name: Shawn S.
Hampton, Virginia (Zone 8b)
Butterflies Morning Glories Annuals Irises Dahlias Zinnias
Orchids Region: United States of America Peonies
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ShawnSteve
Jul 18, 2019 4:35 PM CST
Hi , Leslie. You are most certainly entitled to your own opinion, too . I spent time, preparing this post, as a way of getting opinions on the very subject matter & actually do appreciate your input. I am not a member of the AIS & have never voted, for any Iris. Nor, am I a 'Judge' that determines what takes First, Second or Third place, in an Iris exhibition, show & sale, either.

I simply brought it up, as a way of showing the changes in results, from four years ago, to currently, the present, by comparison & examination of various search results, in hopes that it may lead some to be able to draw some conclusions from looking at those results.. I often tend to "think," rather fairly, effortlessly at times & had considered it may be a topic of interest to others & they just may want to participate in a reasonable discussion, about the topic.
While, If your opinion of it is "overthought", I'm perfectly O.K. with not only that, but your expressing yourself about it, in that manner , also .

Especially, with consideration, to concerning the appearance of 'Immortality' in multiple types of search results..I'd simply wanted to see, how things may have changed, & thought it may be of interest to some , to see how things have changed, or what hasn't & that some may be actually interested in discussing the results.
Of course, beauty lies within the eyes of the beholder. Their are "Judges" but I'm not one of them, but they do tend to play a role in attempting to help come to a decision, in giving some input for helping out with determining, as to what just may qualify as something that they tend to "think", has certain qualities about it, to provide opinions, within the decision making process that eventually may ultimately lead to which Iris may become , one of those next 'New Introductions" , that may be selected , from what growers have produced..

As for an Iris having any "timeless", quality about it, or appearance to it, that is in reference to some of the search results, which just so happened to also include 'Historic', 'Indian Chief. Otherwise I'd have absolutely no other explanation for that result, except , that is how it appears to me. But maybe I'm completely incorrect in my interpretation of the search results & it is some sort of 'unexplained", anomaly.
I certainly hope, some, or at least most of the Iris that I've selected this year, may still be enjoyable, many years from now & not just "tossed out", because some newer ones came along & all that I have, is no longer "relevant' any more & had no qualities, about them worthy of keeping around any longer, in our tendency to be a rather "disposable ", society.
Name: Lucy
Hamilton, MA (Zone 6b)
irises
Charter ATP Member Cottage Gardener Enjoys or suffers cold winters Region: United Kingdom Region: Northeast US Irises
Region: United States of America
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irisarian
Jul 18, 2019 8:55 PM CST
& then there is our garden where we grow many SDBs & very few tall bearded irises.
Name: Shawn S.
Hampton, Virginia (Zone 8b)
Butterflies Morning Glories Annuals Irises Dahlias Zinnias
Orchids Region: United States of America Peonies
Image
ShawnSteve
Jul 19, 2019 4:59 AM CST
Hi Lucy. As I wasn't quite certain, which "List" you'd be interested in the most, here is the "Default" mode list of SBD Iris for you, as follows, for those search results in order of appearance on the first page .
#1, 'Cat's Eye', #2, Bluebeard's Ghost', #3 'Puddy Tat', #4 What Again', #5 ' Big Blue Eyes', #6 'Leopard Print'
#7 'Boo', #8 Blueberry Tart' #9 'Wish Upon a Star', #10 'Spark's Fly' ,
#11 'Cherry Garden' , #12 'Jewel Baby' #13 'Devoted' , #14 'Gizmo the Gremlin' , #15 Ultimate' ,
#16 Rainbow Rim', (or 'River?) #17 'Forever Blue #18 ' Teagan' #19 Baby Blessed' & at the bottom of the first page, #20 'Pussy Cat Pink'.
Apologize, regarding #16, as I didn't have my eye glasses on, at the moment...Perhaps, you've already quite a number of these , already.

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