Plant Database forum: Passiflora Incense

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Name: woofie
NE WA (Zone 5a)
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woofie
Jul 8, 2012 2:43 PM CST
In updating some of the information for Passiflora "Incense," I see that there are two entries for this plant. I don't know which name is the correct one. It's obviously the same plant, and it is a sterile hybrid, but I don't know which name should be the accepted one and which should be a synonym. Any Passiflora experts out there to fix this?
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Name: Monica
Texas Gulf Coast (Zone 9b)
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krancmm
Jul 8, 2012 3:24 PM CST
Both are correct. The first is giving the actual parentage of the hybrid. The second with just the Genus and cultivar (indicating a hybrid) is also correct.

It's for a Plant Admin person to decide which s(he) would prefer. I believe Evan would prefer Passiflora 'Incense', and would put the parentage in the comment section.
One of them has to go, but neither is a synonym of the other...does that make any sense?
Monica
Name: woofie
NE WA (Zone 5a)
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woofie
Jul 8, 2012 3:35 PM CST
Hmmm, I did see the term Passiflora incarnata x cinnicata mentioned as a synonym in one of my travels about the internet (although not from any authoritative source). Are you quite sure it's not?
And, oh dear, there seems to be some difference of opinion as to whether it's cinnicata or cincinnata. HELP!
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Name: Evan
Pioneer Valley south, MA, USA (Zone 6a)
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eclayne
Jul 8, 2012 6:09 PM CST

Plants Admin

krancmm said:Both are correct. The first is giving the actual parentage of the hybrid. The second with just the Genus and cultivar (indicating a hybrid) is also correct.

It's for a Plant Admin person to decide which s(he) would prefer. I believe Evan would prefer Passiflora 'Incense', and would put the parentage in the comment section.


I didn't express a preference Monica, I was raising the issue for discussion as I don't remember it coming up before in quite that way. I'm wondering if these species hybrids could have more than 1 accepted name shown.

Here's a different example with 3 possible accepted names (I think):
1.) Crocosmia 'Carmin Brillant' (possibly a synonym?)
2.) Crocosmia × crocosmiiflora 'Carmin Brillant'
3.) Crocosmia aurea × pottsii 'Carmin Brillant' or Crocosmia aurea × C. pottsii 'Carmin Brillant'

Personally, I like the idea of ALSO using the hybrid formula name (3) whether or not a hybrid name (2) has been accepted. It's helpful naming information. But as I often get way too deep in the weeds I'm happy with what gets decided. Green Grin!

What does everyone else think?
Evan
[Last edited by eclayne - Jul 8, 2012 6:10 PM (+)]
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Name: woofie
NE WA (Zone 5a)
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woofie
Jul 8, 2012 6:26 PM CST
My ever so humble opinion is that whatever is decided, Passiflora Incense is one, single plant. The two entries should be merged and as many names as are relevant should be referenced under that single entry. Now, wasn't that easy? Green Grin! Seriously, tho, I think it would be helpful to anyone looking for information in the Plant Database to include as many of the commonly used names, whether common or botanical, in areas that are searchable. But I have NO idea what to do about the whole "cinnicata" vs "cincinnata" issue. One database I looked at (the Southern Illinois University) had both names in different areas of the same database. sigh.
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Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
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zuzu
Jul 8, 2012 6:39 PM CST

Plants Admin

Woofie, the species is cincinnata. There is no cinnicata species, so that was just a misspelling of the name. If you want to merge them, I'll be sitting at the computer for the next hour or so and I can approve your proposal. Or do you want me to merge them?
Name: Kent Pfeiffer
Southeast Nebraska (Zone 5b)
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KentPfeiffer
Jul 8, 2012 8:12 PM CST

Plants Admin

Here's a different example with 3 possible accepted names (I think):
1.) Crocosmia 'Carmin Brillant' (possibly a synonym?)
2.) Crocosmia × crocosmiiflora 'Carmin Brillant'
3.) Crocosmia aurea × pottsii 'Carmin Brillant' or Crocosmia aurea × C. pottsii 'Carmin Brillant'

Personally, I like the idea of ALSO using the hybrid formula name (3) whether or not a hybrid name (2) has been accepted. It's helpful naming information. But as I often get way too deep in the weeds I'm happy with what gets decided. Green Grin!

What does everyone else think?


I don't have strong feelings one way or the other, but we might want to consider where (3) potentially leads before we start down that road. Do we want to see "(((Lacy Lu x Cretica) x I. aphylla) x (Stepping Out x Jungle Shadows)) X Charmed Circle" listed as a botanical name simply because Alan Ensminger crossed one of his bearded iris seedlings with Iris aphylla? Seems like that sort of information is better dealt with under a parentage category.
[Last edited by KentPfeiffer - Jul 9, 2012 4:33 PM (+)]
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Name: woofie
NE WA (Zone 5a)
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woofie
Jul 8, 2012 9:01 PM CST
That's kind of funny, Zuzu, because I kept trying to spell it cincinnata in my searches and I kept getting cinnicata in my results. But since most people will be looking for just "Incense" we can probably ignore that misspelling. It would be MUCH better if you merged the entries, as you know what you're doing and I most certainly don't!
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Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
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zuzu
Jul 8, 2012 9:47 PM CST

Plants Admin

Okay, it's done. I chose to keep the one that already had three photos and a comment, and that was the one without the wonky parentage info that was half misspelled, so it all worked out fine. I moved your two photos over to the one I kept.
Name: woofie
NE WA (Zone 5a)
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woofie
Jul 8, 2012 9:59 PM CST
Interestingly enough, there is another Passiflora with the same parentage, but under a different name, "Inspiration". Different hybridizers, but the same parents and they look very much alike. Anyway, thanks! It was driving me nuts seeing two entries for the same plant.
Confidence is that feeling you have right before you do something really stupid.
Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
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zuzu
Jul 8, 2012 10:31 PM CST

Plants Admin

At least Brushwood spelled the parents' names correctly.

http://www.gardenvines.com/shop/passion-flowers-7/passiflora...

Duplicate entries drive me nuts too. Let me know if you see any others while you're browsing around.
Name: woofie
NE WA (Zone 5a)
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woofie
Jul 8, 2012 11:30 PM CST
That's another thing that was driving me nuts. I mean, I spent a LOT of time searching for references to P. Incense and just about half the time the one parent was spelled "cincinnata" and the other half of the time it was "cinnicata." And once, both spellings were on the same database. Confused How is a poor, defenseless plant lover supposed to know which is right? Hilarious!
Confidence is that feeling you have right before you do something really stupid.
Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
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zuzu
Jul 8, 2012 11:41 PM CST

Plants Admin

It's outrageous, I know. Nursery websites are not good sources of information.

I'd be surprised if anyone knows all of the species and subspecies. This is where I look them up:

http://www.theplantlist.org/tpl/search?q=passiflora

This lists all of them and says whether they're accepted names, synonyms of other species names, or unresolved. You can see that "cinnicata" just plain doesn't exist.
Name: Evan
Pioneer Valley south, MA, USA (Zone 6a)
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eclayne
Jul 9, 2012 3:58 PM CST

Plants Admin

Kent, that's a really good point re: the parentage part of the equation. When is there too much information to maintain ease of use. Maybe a limit to names of species crosses that don't yet have a new species epithet applied?

Evan
Name: Natalie
North Central Idaho (Zone 7a)
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Natalie
Apr 11, 2013 10:45 PM CST
Woofie, do you grow Passiflora "Incense" outside without bringing it in for the winter? I REALLY want to try it! I think the house in Idaho is in zone 7b, but I'm not positive about that. I need to find a Passiflora that will survive there, or a bunch of them that will survive there!
Natalie
Name: woofie
NE WA (Zone 5a)
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woofie
Apr 12, 2013 9:17 AM CST
I should be so lucky! No, the one I had was a victim of me neglecting to bring it indoors before it froze. The reason I got involved in figuring out the correct name was that I was looking for a source for a replacement.....and got side-tracked! (Who, me? Nah, that never happens!) Hilarious! Mamajack is having a sale right now that includes several passifloras, but I'm not sure if any are still available or what zones they're suitable for.
Confidence is that feeling you have right before you do something really stupid.
Name: Natalie
North Central Idaho (Zone 7a)
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Daylilies Hummingbirder Frogs and Toads Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Native Plants and Wildflowers
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Natalie
Apr 12, 2013 9:48 AM CST
Rolling on the floor laughing Rolling on the floor laughing You sound just like me!

I saw that sale, but can't buy any plants until I get moved the rest of the way. My DH puts up with my plant obsession with no complaint, but I'm afraid he'd be just a little ticked off if I added to the amount that we have to move! Rolling on the floor laughing
Natalie
Name: woofie
NE WA (Zone 5a)
Charter ATP Member Garden Procrastinator Greenhouse Dragonflies Plays in the sandbox I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
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woofie
Apr 12, 2013 10:06 AM CST
Ha! I just sent you a Tree Mail with that link! But I also checked to see which ones were supposed to be hardy to zone 7. I was surprised to see that a few are supposed to be hardy to zone 6! Oh, and it looks like "Incense" and "Inspiration" are indeed the same, just a different hybridizer. This site refers to Inspiration as a "remake" of Incense.
http://www.logees.com/Passion-Flower-Inspiration-Passiflora-...
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Name: Char
Vermont (Zone 4b)
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Char
Apr 13, 2013 3:04 PM CST
I have a few questions about the passi database...

Many passi's do not tolerate temps below 50f or if they do it is only for a very short time. The highest zone temp available to checkbox is 45f. Would it be possible to have a write-in box for temp? or maybe I'm reading the pulldown wrong.

Under color, one of the distinguishing characteristics is the color of the corona, petals and sepals and all three can be different as in Passiflora xallardii which has white sepals, pink petals and a violet corona. I'm not sure what may be possible under flower color but maybe 3 boxes to type in the color, 1 labeled for each part? Then band colors could also be typed in for the corona...

A box for parentage and hybridizer ...

Maybe I'm asking for to much...sorry... but I would like to work on the passi database just need a little help setting it up to be more accurate if it's possible.

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