Daylilies forum→Fructans and daylily senescence?

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Name: Sue
Vermont (Zone 5a)
Daylilies Region: Vermont Garden Procrastinator Seed Starter Plant and/or Seed Trader
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SueVT
Aug 25, 2019 5:56 PM CST
I was reading an article that said that daylilies do not have a common starch metabolism, rather they use fructans (sugars which are also found in things like chicory) to drive the opening and life of the blossom.

These fructans apparently rapidly decline once the flower is open, and may be (my idea) a key factor in why the bloom degrades over the course of the day.

So, if we had more fructans available, would the bloom last longer?

From another article, it seems that generation of fructans and the compounds/enzymes that enable their use is greater in low-nitrogen soils.
That would imply (which I've heard before) that the optimum fertilizer for daylilies would be a lower-N one...

I also saw a discussion that said Yellow daylilies in general are more likely to have an Extended bloom. Not sure why.

Has anyone worked on this? Thinking
Suevt on the LA
Name: Larry
Enterprise, Al. 36330 (Zone 8b)
Composter Daylilies Garden Photography Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Identifier
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Region: Alabama
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Seedfork
Aug 25, 2019 6:25 PM CST
I don't know a thing about fructans, but I don't believe that the optimum fertilizer for daylilies is a lower nitrogen one. I believe it is often recommended to use a higher nitrogen fertilizer in the spring for them. I normally use something with a 16+ nitrogen rating. I think what is in my shed now is 16-4-8. I think that is because the faster the fans develop the quicker they put up scapes.
Name: Sue
Vermont (Zone 5a)
Daylilies Region: Vermont Garden Procrastinator Seed Starter Plant and/or Seed Trader
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SueVT
Aug 25, 2019 6:40 PM CST
That makes sense to me, Larry. I've been using 10-10-10, but recently bought some Osmocote Plus (15-9-12).
Suevt on the LA
Name: Maurice
Grey County, Ontario (Zone 4b)
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admmad
Aug 26, 2019 2:40 PM CST
SueVT said:These fructans apparently rapidly decline once the flower is open, and may be (my idea) a key factor in why the bloom degrades over the course of the day.

So, if we had more fructans available, would the bloom last longer?

No the bloom would not last longer. The plant uses fructans to store its "sugar" in the bud until it is needed. When the flower is mature and ready to open it must increase in size as all its parts absorb water and swell. To do that it uses sucrose sugars to drive water into the flower parts so that they expand to their appropriate sizes. It does that by changing the fructans to sucrose.

Plants quite often actively destroy their flowers. There is likely to be a schedule for what happens to the flower as it ages during the day. Daylily flowers are also probably not built to survive the degrading effects of warm temperatures and high sunlight. As the flower degrades the plant removes substances and re-uses them in new buds, and growth.

From another article, it seems that generation of fructans and the compounds/enzymes that enable their use is greater in low-nitrogen soils.
That would imply (which I've heard before) that the optimum fertilizer for daylilies would be a lower-N one...

I also saw a discussion that said Yellow daylilies in general are more likely to have an Extended bloom. Not sure why.

Has anyone worked on this? Thinking


Optimum fertilizer for daylily growth would be high in nitrogen. Usually high nitrogen means a larger plant and a larger perennial plant usually means more flowers. That is also typically true for annual plants but it tends to mean a delay in flowering for the annual plant as it increases in size. That is often considered as a negative. It would not be relevant to daylilies since the size that determines flowering in most locations would be the year before. Insufficient nitrogen to a daylily will mean that it will be more difficult to rebloom at all or rebloom, if any, will be later in the season.

Maurice
Name: Sue
Vermont (Zone 5a)
Daylilies Region: Vermont Garden Procrastinator Seed Starter Plant and/or Seed Trader
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SueVT
Aug 26, 2019 8:53 PM CST
Thank you Maurice, that is fascinating! I wonder, what if anything would happen if there was excessive fructan? Would the plant just ignore it?

During the nightly period of respiration, are bloom cell contents reclaimed by the plant, then drawn up the stem by the sun into other buds?

What triggers the bud to finally open? The ripening or maturation process appears to have both a physical and a chemical feedback loop.

again, thank you for the information it is very helpful!
Sue
Suevt on the LA
Name: Maurice
Grey County, Ontario (Zone 4b)
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admmad
Aug 27, 2019 10:39 AM CST
SueVT said:Thank you Maurice, that is fascinating! I wonder, what if anything would happen if there was excessive fructan? Would the plant just ignore it?


You are very welcome. I am not sure how one would determine if there was excessive fructans. I suppose the test would be whether there was any fructans remaining in the flower after it expanded. My guess, pure speculation, is that excess fructans would be of no value to the flower but might be turned to sucrose and exported for use in other parts of the developing scape.

During the nightly period of respiration, are bloom cell contents reclaimed by the plant, then drawn up the stem by the sun into other buds?

The material removed from the dying flower parts would be moved to developing parts of the scape (and also possibly other parts of the daylily) both during the day and the night. Respiration occurs both during the day and the night.

What triggers the bud to finally open? The ripening or maturation process appears to have both a physical and a chemical feedback loop.

Sorry, not something that I am familiar with.


Maurice
[Last edited by admmad - Aug 27, 2019 2:34 PM (+)]
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Name: Sue
Vermont (Zone 5a)
Daylilies Region: Vermont Garden Procrastinator Seed Starter Plant and/or Seed Trader
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SueVT
Aug 27, 2019 11:28 AM CST
Maurice, thank you so much! I really appreciate it!
Suevt on the LA
Name: Ronny
Belgium (Zone 8a)
Cat Lover Region: Europe Region: Belgium Daylilies
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Ronny07
Aug 27, 2019 2:07 PM CST
Very well explained Maurice, you know a lot about this matter.
My garden is an empire built on compost.
Name: Daniel Erdy
Catawba SC (Zone 7b)
Pollen collector Fruit Growers Permaculture Hybridizer Plant and/or Seed Trader Organic Gardener
Daylilies Region: South Carolina Garden Ideas: Level 2 Garden Photography Herbs Region: United States of America
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ediblelandscapingsc
Sep 8, 2019 1:39 AM CST
I have had daylilies last 2 days but temps where in the 50's and there was overcast so I agree heat and sunlight are the biggest factors in flower degeneration.
­čî┐A weed is a plant whose virtues have not yet been discovered­čî┐

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