This rose bush is a puzzle. It was planted for me and I'm told, given away by a botanical garden.
Possibly because its a lost cause ?



The graft appears to start half way up, and the rest of the plant doesn't produce roses? What's going on?

And, given that I have infinite patience, can it be pruned in such a way to get it to sprout flowers on any other branch but that one on the left? Or do I cut them all down and ... ?

Here's a close up of what I can only suppose to be the graft site.



So is the branch from below just a sucker?

Anyway, answers on a post card.

Many thanks
Pete

If you bought a yellow rose, that's what you got, if you didn't, that means it is a union graft. Its hard to tell if that is a graft union or not from here. That looks like a rambler to me and you prune those differently. I wouldn't prune her at all and give her a chance to do what she can do. If it were my rose bush I would add a couple of inches of compost and cultivate it into the soil once a year.

Hey Luke, Thanks so much for taking the time to comment. Of course, as I say, it was given to me - I didn't even plant it - and had no idea what would emerge in bloom.

I'm afraid as a beginner I can't fully understand much of what you mean. I've looked up "union graft" and finished none the wiser. I'm happy with my yellow flowers, in any case, but I'd like them on the rest of the plant.

I've pretty much left it to grow for two years or more, and am mystified why the only bit that has decided to grow roses on it all year sticks out sideways in a silly looking branch, with slightly different, smaller leaves, as if the whole of the rest of it was just suckers - but how can that be, above the branch that has roses?

Ummm... What does cultivate it into the soil once a year mean? Google won't tell me.

Thanks!

I agree with Luke. Let it grow as it wishes a bit longer and see what happens, but it does rather look as if someone grafted the yellow rose onto the other plant at that unusual point on the trunk. To encourage the yellow rose, you would have to cut off everything growing above it.

Or, it could be that it was a "one-cane-wonder" and someone chopped it off there to make it branch out.

But, you know what? Unless you have a sentimental attachment to it, I would remove this plant, and substitute instead a healthy plant that would grow well in your London location. Life's just too short to struggle with a plant that very likely won't ever really do well.

Ok, I'll leave it be - no pruning at all? Or cut away crossing branches only?

-- "To encourage the yellow rose, you would have to cut off everything growing above it."

I was afraid you'd say that! If I didn't cut away all the growth above it, would all that growth eventually sprout roses of the original flower? I don't recall it ever doing so. But I'm guessing you would expect it to?

And supposing I liked that rose, I could maybe cut off the graft?

How many years do I wait to see what happens if I do nothing?

I ask partly because I have yellow roses either side, so something different wouldn't be so bad, but maybe the original stock is not much good? Maybe it only flowers once a year or something?

Thanks Porkpal

I'm just guessing here, but it's blooming like a climber since they favor blooming on horizontal growth, and not vertical growth, and the only blooms you have here are on the horizontal growth. So if you train it to grow horizontally on your fence, it may be covered with yellow blooms at some time. I would tip prune it just above a leaf with the growth bud facing the fence, or in the direction you want it to growth right or left, so it would have a fan shape on the fence. Or you can grow it right up to the top of the fence, and guide the growth along the top. This will happen quicker if you follow luke's advice above. Also, cut the spent roses off so the bushes energy doesn't go into producing seeds by forming rose hips.

jerijen said:Or, it could be that it was a "one-cane-wonder" and someone chopped it off there to make it branch out.

But, you know what? Unless you have a sentimental attachment to it, I would remove this plant, and substitute instead a healthy plant that would grow well in your London location. Life's just too short to struggle with a plant that very likely won't ever really do well.

Yup, was afraid that might be the response also... I think that's why they gave it away... thanks again!

reh0622 said:I'm just guessing here, but it's blooming like a climber since they favor blooming on horizontal growth, and not vertical growth, and the only blooms you have here are on the horizontal growth. So if you train it to grow horizontally on your fence, it may be covered with yellow blooms at some time. I would tip prune it just above a leaf with the growth bud facing the fence, or in the direction you want it to growth right or left, so it would have a fan shape on the fence. Or you can grow it right up to the top of the fence, and guide the growth along the top. This will happen quicker if you follow luke's advice above. Also, cut the spent roses off so the bushes energy doesn't go into producing seeds by forming rose hips.

I'm beginning to understand now. I'll definitely do that - I guess the fence will need some wires or something for it hold on to? The only thing I'm not sure I understand from Luke is how I "cultivate it into the soil".

I think Luke meant that you should dig the compost into the top layer of soil when you add it, but that probably is unnecessary. Compost will permeate the soil by itself, and digging too closely to the rose could damage the feeder roots, which are close to the surface.

I'm with Jeri. Scrap it and buy something healthy that you really love. Don't waist your time and money on this poor thing.

If you like the yellow flowers, I would keep it, since you say you have "infinite patience" since it looks otherwise healthy, even if it's not robust. If it was mine, I might prune it back to growth that is at least pencil size or larger, appropriate for a climber, when it is the season for pruning, fertilize it with fish emulsion and concentrated liquid kelp (usually I do foliar feeds) or some kind of organic granular fertilizer, as well as working compost into the soil and as a mulch, and see what happens next year.

I have yet to shovel-prune, and I have lost a dozen roses or so since I started rose gardening 25 years ago. I wait until they are dead, dead, dead. I even have Dr. Huey growing on a fence where Miss All-America Beauty Rose used to be. About three years after it died, I noticed Dr. Huey growing (this is in a remote corner of my 1/4 acre yard among the wild blackberries. You have to admire a rose that could grow completely untended through our hot summers the first couple of years).

I just joined the local Rose Society, so I may eventually change my mind.

I'm the same way, reh. I'm going to try to learn air propagation and grafting with my DR! : )) If the rose puts forth the effort, I'll help it along as I wouldn't have bought it if it didn't please me in some way. Plus, I have the space thus far.

When I first started out I couldn't bring myself to shovel a rose either. And even now I still take in orphaned roses all the time. However, since I've gotten older and it's getting harder to do it all I have no trouble ditching lost causes anymore. That and an acute lack of space, and there is always some new rose I want, makes it much easier to dig out the slackers.

Hello Pete, when someone says graft union it is basicly the same word twice, you seem to know what a graft is? and the union is just that, where the old and the new 'unite' or meet.
As the moderator said on cultivate, in terms of soil and amending (changing making better with compost peat moss sand lime sulphur etc) it just means churning it in so it does not sit on top like a mulch, but also as they said in the case of compost it should be fine on top and digging may harm roots.

I am no expert, so this is only a thought, I wonder if it is a 'rose tree' sometimes they make a graft at the soil line and farther up to make those.
I have read that suckers will not bloom, if it is a rose tree with 2 grafts then the tall green stem on the left coming from above the 1st soil line graft may be a sucker and may or may not need cut off, I am really not sure.
If you do decide to keep it, you may want to try the horizontal idea to see if it is a climber first. but if that does not cause it to bloom then I would cut everything, keeping only the main stem and the yellow blooming shoot.
I have read a small amount of epsom salt promotes basal (base bottom) growth, maybe that would help to get more branches to grow along with the compost and fertilizer.
Good Luck!

I believe suckers will bloom, so if you see a rose totally different in the future, you'll know it's a sucker. Kestrel, I too wondered if this was meant to be some sort of standard rose. It's certainly not taking up much space so I'd keep it for the moment and see what happens.

Yes, if it's from the root stock it will bloom on one year old wood usually, depending on the variety of rose used for the root stock. I have no idea what the preferred root stock is in the UK.

Thanks to everyone, especially Kestral who spent so much time explaining things to me. Like many I can't face the idea of removing it - shovel pruning it - although since it grows so vigorously I might possibly consider cutting it back to the one branch that is blooming ---- but when? Before winter closes in?

And since I have yellow roses either side, I could consider cutting it down further, below thr graft, so only six inches of stem is left, as I think someone suggested.


What seemed to me so remarkable was that the original stock rather than the graft appears to be growing *above* the graft - but a number of you don't agree with this I think, and advise me to give it time and see what happens. Is this time measured in months or years? Give it several years to see what it does, training it towards the fence, or give it several months (next year now as winter is nearly here) in spring and summer?
I'm so grateful for all your thoughts.

The very first thing I would do, Pete, is to add more rich soil or fine compost around the bush, 2-4 inches worth, because you can see the roots showing. Roots need to be covered up completely. I believe the rose graft is right above the roots, not higher up, and what you see higher up is where it was pruned in the past as jeri suggested above.. Since cold weather will soon be coming, you could hold off on doing anything else until spring. One way to cultivate in spring is to loosen the soil with a pitchfork, by inserting it and gently rocking it a bit around it. Then you could add worm castings, or aged chicken manure, or other granular fertilizer, scratching it into the soil with a small hand-held cultivar (usually has three prongs bent on the end).

Thanks Rosemary, I will do exactly as you say. I did wonder why it had the roots showing and what to do about it. I guess they didn't make a big enough hole to put it in. Now it's in my care, we will see if it does any better!