Roses forum: Best Roses for Southern California's Heat

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Ventura County, California
oakslesly
Oct 12, 2019 3:27 PM CST
Hello. I have many David Austin roses and very few of them really thrive in Thousand Oaks . Can anyone recommend roses in the Austin style that do well in heat and are good cut flowers? I have had luck with Meilland's Romantica roses but wonder if there are any other sources to try. My best performer is Meilland's Yves Piaget which I recommend highly. Suggestions would be most appreciated. Thank you.
Coastal Southern California (Zone 13a)
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jerijen
Oct 12, 2019 4:03 PM CST
Oakslesly -- Your Austins may be failing in 1,000 Oaks because they are very THIRSTY roses -- We have only a few Austins roses here, but the ones we do have get all of our dishwater, and that seems to really make a difference to them.

But if you want a rose that is almost MADE for this climate (I am in Camarillo) I recommend that you get "Grandmother's Hat".
Thumb of 2019-10-12/jerijen/9da17d
Thumb of 2019-10-12/jerijen/315a91

You can let it become very big, or you can prune it like a Grandiflora, or you can make it into a low climber -- Your choice. It is disease-free in our climate (you might see a touch of blackspot, when we get one of those temporary tropical systems -- 1-2 times a year.)

It is very fragrant, and if cut fairly tight, will last several days in a vase.
There are sources listed for it ("Buy From") at:
https://www.helpmefind.com/gar...
OR you can order it from Annie's Annuals (I'm not sure, but they MAY offer it as "Barbara Worl")

I would also recommend:
'Lady Ann Kidwell'
Thumb of 2019-10-12/jerijen/7ad876

and "New Orleans Cemetery Rose"
Thumb of 2019-10-12/jerijen/4fefff

SoCal (Zone 10a)
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SoCalGardenNut
Oct 12, 2019 5:37 PM CST
I grow my DA roses in the shade. So far Wedgewood is doing ok, Young Lycidas is doing ok. Queen of Sweden is also doing ok.
Do you have Eden Climber yet? This rose seems to do well for me here in SoCal.
Coastal Southern California (Zone 13a)
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jerijen
Oct 12, 2019 6:18 PM CST
Shade is another issue. Morning sun is reasonable -- but in the afternoon, in this changing climate, many roses will suffer.
SoCal (Zone 10a)
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SoCalGardenNut
Oct 12, 2019 6:53 PM CST
I can even grow peonies here in SoCal, most people didn't think it could be possible, but they are in the shady part.
Here is a picture of my peony plant that I bought from Costco, it had 13 flowers this year.

Thumb of 2019-10-13/SoCalGardenNut/2288ff
Thumb of 2019-10-13/SoCalGardenNut/a3efb9

Coastal Southern California (Zone 13a)
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jerijen
Oct 12, 2019 7:34 PM CST
You must get a bit of winter chill. That never happens, here at the coastline. The thing is with California, we have so many micro-micro climates.
SoCal (Zone 10a)
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SoCalGardenNut
Oct 12, 2019 7:42 PM CST
We're about less than 10 miles to the Coast line. I can feel the sea breeze sometimes. I don't know how many hours of winter chill we get, we don't get any frost. But I do grow Golden Dorset Apple here and we get lots of fruit. Minimum 200-300 winter chill hour for that type of apple.
[Last edited by SoCalGardenNut - Oct 12, 2019 7:43 PM (+)]
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Zone 9, Sunset Zone 9 (Zone 9b)
Roses
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Mustbnuts
Oct 12, 2019 9:02 PM CST
This is the response I placed on the other thread you posted about DA roses that do well in California heat.

When I first started growing roses, I thought the only roses that looked like a DA rose were DA roses. Therefore, I had to have them all. Since then, I have learned that many roses look like a DA rose but do so much better in the climate conditions where I live. I am moving to growing mostly old or antique roses and no, like most people state when I tell them this, many do not bloom once and that is it. Many bloom several times during the year.

Here is my response on the other thread.

I had Alnwick. Emphasis on had. Took it out this year. Did not bloom enough for me and mine was barely fragrant. I Gave it several years but decided it needed to go and put something better in its place.

I find in my hot, hot, hot Zone 9 (and cold in winter--not Minn. cold but cold for here) that most DA roses just don't perform well. They were bred in England where it is much colder and wetter than conditions here. None of the ones that I have grown do all that well as a cut flower. They may last a day or two and that is it as a cut flower.

If you can give a DA rose afternoon shade, they (for the most part) tend to do better. They also tend to be water hogs. I find mine perform much better with an adequate drip system and lots and lots of mulch to help protect from the heat. They all pretty much go dormant during the summer and perk up again in the fall when it is about 30 degrees cooler. Unfortunately, most of the ones that have done well for me during the summer are no longer available. The best ones for me in full sun are Mary Magdalene and Ambridge Rose. I didn't like the scent of Ambridge at all and after a decade or more, finally got rid of it. MM is incredible. Takes a bit to come into her own but she is a great rose for my climate.

Other DA roses that do well (but get about a half day of sun) are Pretty Jessica, Munstead Wood, and Princess Alexandra of Kent. Actually these three get afternoon sun and do really well. My other DA roses are pretty much dormant during the summer. If they bloom at all, it is one or two blooms and then they are not as full as in the spring. The plants are just trying to survive in the 100+ degree heat.

Other DA roses I have had or have now but are dormant during the summer would be;
Lady Emma Hamilton (died within the first month of having her during the summer)
Mary Webb--no longer available
Sharifa Asma--MM is a better rose for my climate and looks similar to Sharifa
Jubilee Celebration--too young to fully judge yet
Lady of Shalott
Brother Cadfael
Sister Elizabeth--gone, gone, gone
Heritage--my ineptness as a new gardener basically killed this one (unfortunately)
Zone 9, Sunset Zone 9 (Zone 9b)
Roses
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Mustbnuts
Oct 12, 2019 9:13 PM CST
I also forgot to add that I had Evelyn (reverted back to own root)--only did fair in the heat
Jude the Obscure--he is gone, gone, gone--thank goodness, not good for my growing conditions
Peach Blossom--unfortunately not available any longer--good rose for the heat.
Ventura County, California
oakslesly
May 23, 2020 3:55 PM CST
Thank you all! Here's an update on my David Austin roses (Thousand Oaks, Ventura Co., CA)
My Princess Alexandra of Kent is thriving without much shade. It is only a year in the ground and producing gobs of flowers. Very healthy.
The Ancient Mariner is young but produced some flowers in its second year. It has some afternoon shade.
Sharif Asma is an old plant that never did well and is prone to disease. It is in full sun and might do better with some shade. It is not healthy and most likely will be shovel pruned soon.
Heritage was diseased so I severely pruned it, removing half of the sickly plant. (It was next to Sharif Asma and neither were happy in full sun) It is now producing some beautiful flowers on new growth. Some plants have grown up around it, so it receives some shade. It isn't completely healthy yet.
The Wife of Bath is short and was hidden and shaded by a large sage. When I cut back the sage, The Wife of Bath came into its own. It looks healthy and happy and is producing lots of flowers. I planted it years ago so was happy to see it doing well.
Mary Rose is old and has climbed up a garden obelisk and produced many blooms this year, which is unusual for this rose. It seems happy and fairly healthy.
In a matching obelisk next to Mary Rose, Evelyn is not very happy. It's as old, and has grown as tall, as Mary Rose, but without the vigor. It still has rust and not much new growth, unlike Mary Rose. Not sure if I will keep it.
The Ingenious Mr. Fairchild is an monster and is restrained inside a heavy duty steel tomato cage. Very thorny and sprawls everywhere. Lots and lots of blooms but not good in a vase. Suckers everywhere. Constant battle to keep it restrained. Healthy and too vigorous, imo.
Sceptur'd Isle is in full sun and doing well this year. I have moved it twice and it appears to like the new spot.
Next to Sceptur'd Isle is Olivia Rose Austin, also in full sun. Very healthy, very happy and producing nice blooms for a two year old plant
I just planted Young Lycidas last month. It gets some shade and hopefully it will thrive. Too soon to tell.
Pretty Jessica receives a good amount of shade and is wonderful. So healthy and produces beautiful flowers. It's by the front door, surrounded by lavendar, and the pink and purple together are brilliant.
Wise Portia is also along the front of the house and is a winner. The color is fabulous and it's growing into a large plant. It blooms through lavendar and is under a large purple trumpet vine along the roof line. It seems to always be in bloom.
I gave up on Tamora as it was a dud for me, so instead of dumping it, I planted it behind a huge Graham Thomas by our mailbox. I ignored it until I realized it was growing well, very healthy, and producing beautiful flowers. It is crowded next to two other roses and seems to love it. It gets lots of shade from the Graham Thomas.
I did basically the same thing with Ambridge Rose and stuck it behind a hedge with tree shade. It hasn't stopped blooming since. It is beautiful.
The Graham Thomas isn't as healthy as I had hoped. It is always in bloom and growing taller and taller, so I 'top' it back to manageable size
(5-6 feet) several times a year. It really is huge, but not disease free. I cut out lots of dead branches in the interior, so hopefully it will do better.
Charles Rennie Macintosh, a favorite of mine, is on a slight hill hiding behind a huge rose that is now close to the top of the Fuju Persimmon tree at the base of the small hill. C.R.M. likes the shade. It's an older plant but holding its own.
Munstead Wood is probably getting too much shade being under tall mulberry trees. It's growing horizontally more than vertically, and has lots of spindly branches. The color is fine, but it's very thorny and the flowers don't seem to do well in a vase. Rather disappointed but worried that too much sun might impact the deep color.
The Huntington Rose is very vigorous and restrained in the same type of heavy steel circular tomato frame as The Ingenious Mr. Fairchild. It doesn't send out suckers like TIMF does, but it is rather floppy and needs support. It receives much shade but appears to like it. It is healthy and wants to spread.
I have two Jude the Obscure roses growing on pergola columns. The one receiving more sun is doing really well. The one receiving less sun is not nearly as full of blooms. They both appear healthy and are blooming.

I have planted some Delbard roses and several Romantica Meilland roses. Both kinds seem to like the garden. I have several Buck roses, but couldn't get EarthSong to grow. Any suggestions?
The Australian Sam McCreedy roses also are doing well.
Any comments and/or suggestions are very welcomed.


Shemini
May 23, 2020 5:39 PM CST
I started growing roses 4 years ago.
And, I bought a few DA roses from Otto and Sons.
I have been learning and learning. But, my Golden Celebration and Molinoux fried at heat wave over 90F this April. I live in Santa Clarita. And I started searching very fragrant and dry heat tolerant roses. I found Clotilde Supert cl. would. I really want to try Clotilde Supert Cl.

Anyway, lots of great infos. I appreciate your sharings.
Is there Jeri Jenings? I have the rose after your name from Rogue Valley. It is still small but I am excited.
[Last edited by Shemini - May 23, 2020 5:41 PM (+)]
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Name: J D
(Zone 10b)
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jnd1126
May 27, 2020 12:17 PM CST
Hi O!
I really appreciate all the info. I'm in SoCal; not too far from SJC Mission. I had a few DA's (10) in the past and they didn't do well bc of the heat so I ended up taking them out and gave them away. But, I'm looking to putting some back in. Your thread helps A LOT!!! I will look into those that you have mentioned. Thanks!!!
SoCal (Zone 10a)
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SoCalGardenNut
May 27, 2020 2:06 PM CST
Molineux doesn't fry where I am, zone 10b, this one is in full sun


Young Lycidas, under shade



But what I've seen actually Fred under the heat is Neil Diamond, and Simply Magnifiscent, I'm not sure they are DA or not.

Name: J D
(Zone 10b)
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jnd1126
May 27, 2020 3:19 PM CST
SoCalGN, thanks for the suggestion. I've a few questions. Data base says Molineux gets bushy and stay short 2-3'. Does it stay that way for u and is it a prolific bloomer? Does it come back or not until fall will u get another nice flush? How big does Lycidas get for you? I will be moving quite a few in the fall. So I'm trying to make a list of ones I'd like to have and where to put it in the garden. I'm open to any color at this point. Will figure out the color scheme once I've a list of roses that thrive in SoCal heat. Thanks!!!
SoCal (Zone 10a)
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SoCalGardenNut
May 27, 2020 3:29 PM CST
jnd1126 said:SoCalGN, thanks for the suggestion. I've a few questions. Data base says Molineux gets bushy and stay short 2-3'. Does it stay that way for u and is it a prolific bloomer? Does it come back or not until fall will u get another nice flush? How big does Lycidas get for you? I will be moving quite a few in the fall. So I'm trying to make a list of ones I'd like to have and where to put it in the garden. I'm open to any color at this point. Will figure out the color scheme once I've a list of roses that thrive in SoCal heat. Thanks!!!


That's what I've read about Molineux too, but I don't think it's that small, however this is my first year planting it. The one in the back yard is already 3 feet, just 3 months of growing. Right now, it's not prolific producer, Julia Child is.
I have Young Lycidas for a few years, maybe 4-5 years, this is the first year I learned how to bend them and get more flowers horizontally, it's a climber in my yard, tuck in a corner, I would say it's medium, not massive, but not small.
Name: J D
(Zone 10b)
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jnd1126
May 27, 2020 3:45 PM CST
Wow!!! Sounds like Molineux will be BIG. I had to smile bc I also thought of Julia when I asked if it's a prolific bloomer. Smiling LOVE Julia!
I had 5 Scepter d' Isle and they got HUGE. Took over the whole side of the garden where they were. Love the blooms; not the size. I really like YL's color. Pls keep posting pics of M & YL. I love looking at others pics of roses.
Zone 9, Sunset Zone 9 (Zone 9b)
Roses
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Mustbnuts
May 29, 2020 3:11 PM CST
I find the David Austin roses generally don't do well with the heat where I live. I think we were 108 F yesterday, so it gets hot here (way over 100 F) for several months during the late spring, summer and early fall.

I tend to gravitate towards breeders that are from areas similar to mine regarding the weather. So, I have a lot of Ralph Moore roses. His nursery, where he bred his roses was located in Visalia California where it is also hot during the summer. I tend to go towards breeders who are from Australia, South Africa, etc. Judith Singer is a breeder from Tuscon Ariz. Her roses love the heat!

David Austin is from northern England where it is cold, rainy, etc. Everything weather wise that is the exact opposite from where I live. I give his roses a lot of shade for the most part. I also look for roses that are from the Leander line as they tend to do better in the heat than his other roses. Mary Magdalene is one. Ambridge is another (although I hated the smell). Pretty Jessica does well as does Munstead Wood (which naturally grows sideways). Princess Alexandra of Kent also does well for me, again in partial shade. So far, Lady of Shalott is hanging in there. She lost the shade from a big tree when my neighbor cut it down. She now has pavement surrounding her on three sides during the hottest part of the day and no shade. I have an old DA rose, Emily, that is finally (after decades) taking off and doing well in pretty much full (but not heavy) shade.

For me, hybrid perpetuals tend to do very well where I live. Vick's Caprice, Joasine Hanet (aka Portland from Glendora) are great. Scents to die for. I like Yolande d'Aragon very much but she has a tendency to black spot even in this dry weather we have. Another nice rose that is doing well is Ma Perkins. Blooming away in this heat as is Alice Hamilton and Borderer. Love these old roses as they have really stood the test of time.

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