Roses forum→grafted rose question

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Zone 9, Sunset Zone 9 (Zone 9b)
Roses
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Mustbnuts
Oct 24, 2019 12:39 PM CST
For roses that are grafted, does the root stock also help to control the height and width of the rose or just the overall health of the rose? The reason I am asking is that I had Sharifa Asma on rootstock and I just recall it staying rather small (for an Austin). Maybe around three feet or so. I had it on its own root for several years. I now have Sharifa on its own root (band from Heirloom) and it is about 4--5 feet tall and it is maybe a year old? It is not a wide rose, but I am wondering how much taller it is going to get over the next couple of years. I don't believe the difference in size from root stock to own root.
Name: seil
St Clair Shores, MI (Zone 6a)
Roses Garden Photography Region: Michigan
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seilMI
Oct 24, 2019 4:58 PM CST
Root stock usually does affect the plant size. Look at the difference between roses grafted on Dr. Huey and Fortuniana. The Fort. stock usually pushes the rose to much bigger size than DH does. Were your SAs planted in the same locations? That could make a difference in their performance. And sometimes you can get a dud rose. The graft may have been badly done or the root stock itself was not healthy so couldn't give the scion the boost it required. Many factors play a part in how roses grow.
Name: Porkpal
Richmond, TX
Charter ATP Member Dog Lover Cat Lover Keeper of Poultry Keeps Horses I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
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porkpal
Oct 24, 2019 6:33 PM CST
I remember Zuzu saying the rootstock was used to control the height of Queen Elizabeth who can become a giant on her own roots.
Porkpal
Zone 9, Sunset Zone 9 (Zone 9b)
Roses
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Mustbnuts
Oct 25, 2019 7:31 AM CST
Ah, good! Thank you! My original grafted Sharifa was in a pot and when I bought the house, finally planted in the ground. I just remember her as staying small for an Austin (compared to the other Austins I have). Two to three feet max.

This one, own root, is also in a pot and it continues to get taller and taller! Interestingly, the flowers are also much bigger on this one, however it does get afternoon shade whereas the other plant I had did not. We shall see how this continues since this plant is such a baby and I had the other one for about 10 years or so.
Name: SoCal
Orange County (Zone 10a)
Lazy Gardener or Melonator
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SoCalGardenNut
Oct 27, 2019 12:05 PM CST
Oh no, I have Queen Elizabeth with its own root.
I try to grow everything, sometime not successful.
Name: Lola
Tasmania
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LolaTasmania
Oct 27, 2019 10:40 PM CST
The rootstock of a rose influencing how big a rose gets had never crossed my mind before. Do you think this is the reason roses grow differently in different parts of the world? In Australia the vast majority of roses are on Dr Huey. I have grown a Windermere from a cutting and I have friends who have grown things this way but anything in a nursery will be on Dr Huey. It now makes sense that if the US uses Fortuniana that the height of some plants in the USA far exceeds that which they get to here.
Zone 9, Sunset Zone 9 (Zone 9b)
Roses
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Mustbnuts
Oct 28, 2019 4:02 AM CST
Actually, Lola, I don't think I have any of my old grafted roses on Fortuniana. Here in the west, Dr. Huey seems to be the preference for root stock. I know I had the Dr. as when they reverted back to root stock, there was the good Dr., blooming away. It took a few years before I finally got rid of him in my garden.
SW Ohio River Valley (Zone 6b)
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vaporvac
Oct 28, 2019 12:25 PM CST
MBN, maybe your current SA is getting tall because it's reaching for light. This happened with Zaide which is a willowing grower anyway.
Zone 9, Sunset Zone 9 (Zone 9b)
Roses
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Mustbnuts
Oct 28, 2019 6:14 PM CST
Interesting thought, Vap. I don't think so. I have, next to Sharifa, Jubilee Celebration, Minnie Mouse, Peppermint Parfait and a rose I grew from one of Kim's seeds. They get the same amount of sun and are pretty much (other than Minnie and Jubilee--as they are still babies--Like Sharifa) are their expected heights for their age. I find that Sharifa, in the area she is now located, is blooming a whole lot more than I ever got with her as a grafted rose. I find the blooms to be a whole lot bigger on her as well. So who knows? Before, when she was in full sun, she only bloomed in the spring. Now she is blooming spring and fall (just not when it is over 100 F for several months).
Sydney, Australia (Zone 10b)
Protoavis
Oct 29, 2019 4:25 PM CST
porkpal said:I remember Zuzu saying the rootstock was used to control the height of Queen Elizabeth who can become a giant on her own roots.


A lot of the earlier grandiflora can, they get crazy. My mother inlaw got a June Bride. Its more easily accessed from the second story window and even then it reaches the roof.
Anyone with oryzalin (aka Surflan, Embargo), am looking for a small amount rather than 5litres from manufacturer (min size in Australia....)
Zone 9, Sunset Zone 9 (Zone 9b)
Roses
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Mustbnuts
Oct 30, 2019 6:18 AM CST
Thanks for the input Protoavis--as always, it is good to hear from you as I appreciate your (and everyone else's expertise on roses).

My Brother Cadfael (own root that I grew from a cutting) is now taller than the eaves and is still going towards the sky. My grafted one stays about 8 feet tall or so. So now I know that root stock can make a difference in height. Never put two and two together before as roses get so big here anyway. If a DA rose states it gets to be about 2--3 feet in height or width, I pretty much have to double or triple it to get the actual size here.

I love how DA lists Princess Alexandra of Kent as good for containers. Maybe grafted but on her own root, you would need a container the size of Antarctica! She grew to over 10 feet tall her first year! She was also about 5 feet wide and ate anyone that dared to walk past her towards my front door. Needless to say, she has been moved.

You know, Vap, I moved my P of AK, in almost the same spot as my grafted Sharifa Asma (about 7--10 feet away) but both got the same amount of sun in that area, daily. P of AK never grew more than a couple of feet tall. Where she gets partial shade, she just goes all out and gets to be extremely big and tall and blooms like crazy. So glad for everyone's input on this. Helps to increase my limited knowledge, which I appreciate very much.
SW Ohio River Valley (Zone 6b)
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vaporvac
Oct 30, 2019 11:07 AM CST
One thing is for sure, these roses have mind of their own!
Sydney, Australia (Zone 10b)
Protoavis
Oct 30, 2019 4:02 PM CST
LolaTasmania said:In Australia the vast majority of roses are on Dr Huey.


Depends on where you you get your roses. Most of what I have is on Multiflora based on suckers. But most of what i have has come from Thomas For Roses, Wagners, Ross Roses or Magic Garden Roses as Ive had too many duds from Treloars.
Anyone with oryzalin (aka Surflan, Embargo), am looking for a small amount rather than 5litres from manufacturer (min size in Australia....)
Zone 9, Sunset Zone 9 (Zone 9b)
Roses
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Mustbnuts
Oct 30, 2019 5:19 PM CST
Protoavis, do any of those nurseries (other than Treloars) ship to Tasmania? Lola is in Tasmania.

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