Irises forum: Who among you

Page 2 of 2 • 1 2
Views: 1346, Replies: 24 » Jump to the end
Name: Marilyn, aka "Poly"
South San Francisco Bay Area (Zone 9b)
"The mountains are calling..."
Region: California Garden Photography Garden Procrastinator Daylilies Pollen collector Dog Lover
Moon Gardener Irises Heucheras Vegetable Grower Garden Ideas: Level 1 Celebrating Gardening: 2015
Image
Polymerous
Dec 11, 2019 8:03 PM CST
Australis said:
It's interesting that you comment about the underlying tissue in daylilies influencing muddiness and higher ploidies decreasing the "whiteness" of near-white blooms. From my understanding, that is effectively opposite to how it works in Cymbidiums - higher ploidies of the white species and hybrids tend to have a more solid, higher-quality "whiteness" to them. The layer above the base colour layer is the one that adds "muddiness" (typically in greens) and it is affected by temperature.


That opposite-ploidy effect on color clarity between these two genera is really interesting!

Daylily color, as I understand it, is in the upper layer(s) and the green or yellow in the base tissue causes some of the mud problems. Mud also occurs from overlaying two very different pigments such as purple on top of orange. Sometimes a parent which doesn't look muddy in itself can throw muddy offspring, depending on what it is crossed to and what color the offspring are. I remember Pat Stamile (famous hybridizer) specifically mentioning yellows in this regard, in the sense that some of them have hidden mud.

Oddly enough, sometimes you can have a daylily which looks awful for mud, but which is a great parent for clarifying color. DARLA ANITA is notoriously muddy, yet throws clear offspring. Confused CLARIFICATION may or may not be muddy (I don't know, I've never seen it), but was named such because the hybridizer thought it was a great parent for clarifying color.

It is interesting that you mention temperature dependence wrt mud. One of the daylily forum's science gurus says that mud results from anthocyanin pigment (presumably in combination with the carotenoids Confused ). I do know (from personal experience) that when the temperature gets cold, many daylilies here scarcely (or not at all) develop certain flower pigments, and all look (more or less) like some shade of cream or pale yellow.




Evaluating an iris seedling, hopefully for rebloom
Name: Joshua
Melbourne, Victoria, Australia (Zone 10b)
Köppen Climate Zone Cfb
Region: Australia Bookworm Cat Lover Lilies Orchids Irises
Seed Starter Annuals Container Gardener Garden Photography Forum moderator Avid Green Pages Reviewer
Image
Australis
Dec 11, 2019 10:33 PM CST

Plants Admin

Polymerous said:Mud also occurs from overlaying two very different pigments such as purple on top of orange. Sometimes a parent which doesn't look muddy in itself can throw muddy offspring, depending on what it is crossed to and what color the offspring are. I remember Pat Stamile (famous hybridizer) specifically mentioning yellows in this regard, in the sense that some of them have hidden mud.

Oddly enough, sometimes you can have a daylily which looks awful for mud, but which is a great parent for clarifying color. DARLA ANITA is notoriously muddy, yet throws clear offspring. Confused CLARIFICATION may or may not be muddy (I don't know, I've never seen it), but was named such because the hybridizer thought it was a great parent for clarifying color.

It is interesting that you mention temperature dependence wrt mud. One of the daylily forum's science gurus says that mud results from anthocyanin pigment (presumably in combination with the carotenoids Confused ). I do know (from personal experience) that when the temperature gets cold, many daylilies here scarcely (or not at all) develop certain flower pigments, and all look (more or less) like some shade of cream or pale yellow.


That is very interesting. I can't say I've observed those sort of breeding habits with Cyms (or Irises) yet, but I'm only just starting out with my own hybridising program and so my observations of "mud" inheritance are purely from looking at others' work.

Daylilies reduce anthocyanin expression in the cold?! That's the opposite to Cymbidiums... this year our Spring has been cooler and the red overlays have been stronger in quite a few plants.

Speaking of colour inheritance, has anyone noted particular Iris parents that tend to suppress or emphasise anthocyanins? I know in Cyms that there are definitely plants that do this (for example, Cym. hookerianum often reduces the expression and removes spotting in the tepals, whilst Cym. sanderae 'Emma Menninger' is reported to bring out more reds).

Plant Authorities: Catalogue of Life (Species) --- International Cultivar Registration Authorities (Cultivars) --- RHS Orchid Register --- RHS Lilium Register
My Notes: Orchid Genera HTML PDF Excel --- Lilium Traits HTML PDF --- Lilium Species Crosses HTML PDF Excel --- Lilium Species Diagram
The current profile image is that of Iris 'Volcanic Glow'.
[Last edited by Australis - Dec 11, 2019 10:34 PM (+)]
Give a thumbs up | Quote | Post #2120195 (2)
Name: Lucy
Hamilton, MA (Zone 6b)
irises
Charter ATP Member Cottage Gardener Enjoys or suffers cold winters Region: United Kingdom Region: Northeast US Irises
Region: United States of America
Image
irisarian
Dec 12, 2019 11:01 AM CST
I hybridize medians so can't help you on names, but studying crosses of the main breeders helps. Keith Keppel spends the winter talking about inheritance types in plicatas on facebook.
Name: Mary
Tennessee (Zone 7a)
Keeps Goats Bee Lover Irises Peonies Daylilies Bulbs
Butterflies Cat Lover
Image
urania1
May 16, 2020 6:03 PM CST
Alas, I fear that I am the rare bird who likes mud.
Name: Lucy
Hamilton, MA (Zone 6b)
irises
Charter ATP Member Cottage Gardener Enjoys or suffers cold winters Region: United Kingdom Region: Northeast US Irises
Region: United States of America
Image
irisarian
May 16, 2020 9:06 PM CST
remember there are 2 different color streams & perhaps blending them causes 'mud'.

Page 2 of 2 • 1 2

« Garden.org Homepage
« Back to the top
« Forums List
« Irises forum
Only the members of the Members group may reply to this thread.

Member Login:

[ Join now ]

Today's site banner is by arctangent and is called "Say 'Yes' to Yarrow"

This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply.