Daylilies forum: Deja Vu

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Name: Tina
Greenup, Ky (Zone 6b)
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beenthere
Dec 8, 2019 2:50 PM CST
Last year I had two seedlings get pale and develop curly leaves. They quickly expired when exposed to real sunlight. It's happening again! This time four total are affected. From two different crosses, totally unrelated. I'm baffled? Using new, deep plug (5 inch) trays, Promix BX and one of the crosses is under T8 lights, the other under T5. So many things are different this year, feels so strange to see the same affliction. Anyone got a clue? Thumb of 2019-12-08/beenthere/74a06a


Thumb of 2019-12-08/beenthere/89b8d8

Name: Tina
Greenup, Ky (Zone 6b)
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beenthere
Dec 8, 2019 3:02 PM CST
They actually do have Cosmic Aftershock in common, after all. Had to look up the seedling cross.
Name: Trina
Eagle Point, Oregon (Zone 7b)
Daylilies Hybridizer Herbs Annuals Echinacea Cat Lover
Vegetable Grower Salvias Hummingbirder Dragonflies Birds Butterflies
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flowerpower35
Dec 8, 2019 4:22 PM CST
Tina, most likely those are actually albino seedlings. I got albinos crop up in 3 different crosses last year. Some started out very white and some just a real pale green. It's genetic and the seedlings always die. As soon as the energy stored in the seed is used up then they start to die cause they are unable to make their own food due to the lack of chlorophyll in their leaves. I just make a note in my records that the particular cross can produce albino. I believe most of us on here have had the experience of these cropping up from time to time.
Name: Celeste
central New Hampshire (Zone 4b)
Region: New Hampshire Daylilies Hybridizer Birds Cat Lover Butterflies
Seller of Garden Stuff Roses
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celestialrose
Dec 8, 2019 4:37 PM CST
Last year I had albino seedlings pop up in 2 different crosses involving Malachite Sunbird. I didn't have a single one in any of the other (several hundred) crosses using other daylilies. I wonder if certain daylilies are more prone to this?
Name: Jeff
Newaygo, Michigan (Zone 5a)
If You Can't Fix It...
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goedric
Dec 8, 2019 6:10 PM CST
In addition to albinism, other deleterious recessive genes can theoretically interfere with seedling development. Recessive genes might be expected to express themselves more often in inbred lines. The build up of deleterious recessive genes (inbreeding depression) is expected to be more of an issue in Diploids than Tetraploids. Looks like you are dealing with diploids. Like others said, I would make a note that this occurs in that cross and check other crosses involving a parent of this one.
You Gotta Stand It.
[Last edited by goedric - Dec 9, 2019 7:07 AM (+)]
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Name: Tina
Greenup, Ky (Zone 6b)
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beenthere
Dec 8, 2019 6:11 PM CST
Thank you, Trina. I've been reading some past posts here on Albinos, and I'm sure you're right. I usually cull albinos after about a week, but these must have been just green enough to fool me. Bummer!
Name: James
California (Zone 8b)
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JamesT
Dec 8, 2019 6:19 PM CST
Interesting thread;

Deja Vu, posted by beenthere.

I'm going to have to ponder this for a while...
Name: Tina
Greenup, Ky (Zone 6b)
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beenthere
Dec 8, 2019 6:24 PM CST
I have another cross with Cosmic Aftershock that is still looking good with 100% germination. That cross is with Hillbilly Homecoming as pollen parent. Being new to all this, I automatically thought it was something I caused. Glad that is not the case.
Name: Robin
Southern Michigan (Zone 6a)
Region: Michigan Seller of Garden Stuff Seed Starter Cat Lover Daylilies Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
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RobinSeeds
Dec 9, 2019 12:58 AM CST
JamesT said:Interesting thread;

Deja Vu, posted by beenthere.

I'm going to have to ponder this for a while...

I giggled about that right away also... Hilarious!
God blessed me with dirt.
('Mipii' on The LA)
Name: Tina
Greenup, Ky (Zone 6b)
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beenthere
Dec 9, 2019 5:10 AM CST
I would have got it right away had it been Charlie, he is always being witty. But from James, I was like "whatever do you mean"? Rolling on the floor laughing
Name: Maurice
Grey County, Ontario (Zone 4b)
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admmad
Dec 9, 2019 8:45 AM CST
@beenthere
It has been estimated that about 300 different genes (in a typical plant) can cause chlorophyll deficiency - meaning that the normal green colour of the plant will be affected if the gene is abnormal. Only some of them will produce albino seedlings. Others may change the leaf colour from normal green to pale green or greenish-yellow, for example. Yet others may allow the plant to have a normal green colour in some circumstances but not in others. Some may cause the leaves to become yellow at low temperatures, others at high temperatures, or may allow the plant to develop more normal green colour at low temperatures or in shade, etc.

It may be possible that your seedlings might have become a more normal green colour if the temperature at which they were growing was lower (or higher) or if the light was more intense, etc.
Maurice
Name: Tina
Greenup, Ky (Zone 6b)
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beenthere
Dec 9, 2019 9:03 AM CST
Thank you, Maurice, for the info. But they have been culled. Siblings all around those have normal coloration, so that points to intrinsic factors. If any of the rest develop the same problems, I will then consider external factors. And thanks to you I now know what to try.
Name: Jeff
Newaygo, Michigan (Zone 5a)
If You Can't Fix It...
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goedric
Dec 9, 2019 10:02 AM CST
beenthere said:Thank you, Maurice, for the info. But they have been culled. Siblings all around those have normal coloration, so that points to intrinsic factors. If any of the rest develop the same problems, I will then consider external factors. And thanks to you I now know what to try.


If you get more I would consider letting them grow out a bit to see what happens... who knows, could produce something interesting

You Gotta Stand It.
Name: Maurice
Grey County, Ontario (Zone 4b)
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admmad
Dec 9, 2019 12:15 PM CST
@beenthere
Could you please let us know the names of the other parents in both crosses? From the information you have provided we now know that 'Cosmic Aftershock' probably carries one copy of a gene that produces the light green leaf colour. Since seedlings appeared with the problem from two crosses we also know that the other parents in both crosses also carried one copy of the same gene (allele to be formally correct). If the other parents are not registered any information about their parentage would be useful to know for tracking.
Maurice
Name: Tina
Greenup, Ky (Zone 6b)
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beenthere
Dec 9, 2019 1:40 PM CST
I took a picture of all the albino seedlings tags. These include those that were more obvious and culled after a weeks growth.
Thumb of 2019-12-09/beenthere/fcabe0

Name: Tina
Greenup, Ky (Zone 6b)
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beenthere
Dec 9, 2019 1:45 PM CST
The seedling cross has Cosmic Aftershock on one side.
Name: Maurice
Grey County, Ontario (Zone 4b)
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admmad
Dec 9, 2019 2:33 PM CST
Mississippi BR = Mississippi Bill Robinson?
BB Eyes = Baby Blue Eyes?
Maurice
Name: Tina
Greenup, Ky (Zone 6b)
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beenthere
Dec 9, 2019 2:41 PM CST
Yes. Sorry.
Name: Maurice
Grey County, Ontario (Zone 4b)
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admmad
Dec 9, 2019 3:26 PM CST
@beenthere - no problem. Smiling
Maurice
Name: Sue
Vermont (Zone 5a)
Daylilies Region: Vermont Garden Procrastinator Seed Starter Plant and/or Seed Trader
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SueVT
Dec 9, 2019 4:16 PM CST
so much writing...... you should print these labels IMHO
Suevt on the LA

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