Roses forum→Elusive roses

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Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
Charter ATP Member Region: California Cat Lover Roses Clematis Irises
Garden Ideas: Level 2 Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier Garden Sages Forum moderator Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
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zuzu
Jan 6, 2020 12:55 AM CST

Moderator

I've hunted for years for some roses. I've succeeded in finding most of them, but there are a couple that are still the highest on my list and still the most elusive.

The best mauve rose I ever had was Spellcaster. I bought it about 30 years ago and had it for 10 years before the gophers killed it. I've been looking for a replacement for 20 years without any luck. I don't have any pictures of it of my own because I never had a camera until 2005, and it was long gone by then, but here's a picture from the Just Our Pictures site:

Thumb of 2020-01-06/zuzu/8c2738

The second rose, Kordes' Jubilee, was the subject of much discussion and admiration in our rose forum when it was the background image on the home page of the Kordes website in 2012. This image was also on the cover of the Kordes catalog that year.

Thumb of 2020-01-06/zuzu/8f8686

Another picture of the same rose was on the cover of the book celebrating Kordes' 125th anniversary that year.

Thumb of 2020-01-06/zuzu/3c8d7c

We all naturally assumed that the rose chosen to commemorate this important jubilee would be marketed widely, but I've never seen it offered at any nursery on this continent. Maybe Star will make it available here now that it has become Kordes' distributor in the United States.

What are the elusive roses you're seeking?
Name: Ken Wilkinson
N.E. GA. (Cornelia) (Zone 7b)
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KenNEGA
Jan 6, 2020 10:24 AM CST
Whisky Mac, grafted.
It's a rose!!! It has nothing to do with life and death.

fisherwoman
Jan 6, 2020 11:09 AM CST
ZUZU,
Spellcaster looks like it fits it's name. Jubilee is exceptional too, the pink edge around plump yellow buds is gorgeous.
I hope as rose enthusiasts communicate, some rare ones will surface and circulate.
I don't need a lot, but feel the garden is always missing something. I had given up on a few roses and put them out of my mind. Do you know the old Aesop's fairy tale " The Fox and the Grapes" where he jumped with all his might but could not reach them, and walked away thinking they were probably sour anyway...
Reine des Feuilles swirled fluffy form appeals to me- nowhere to be found in the US and a once bloomer, it is sour grapes.
I gave Crested Moss to my busy son who went on vacation leaving the roses sitting in buckets, it perished right away. I kick myself for that one.
Over the years my desire changes, fragrance has become more important to me. I'm still looking for the perfect rose that I may never find, then again I might.

fisherwoman
Jan 6, 2020 11:17 AM CST
Ken, Years ago i saw Whiskey Mac at Hortico, I wanted it too . I don't know much about nurseries grafting at request.
Now that I heard about Freedom Gardens, I think maybe I will work with him to get a few he has to take my mind off what I can't have.
SW Ohio River Valley (Zone 6b)
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vaporvac
Jan 6, 2020 1:39 PM CST
That's hilarious, fisherwoman! I do the same. Mine is The Aspirin Rose. Peter had it, but his mother plant died so we're both looking for it. : ((
Name: seil
St Clair Shores, MI (Zone 6a)
Roses Garden Photography Region: Michigan
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seilMI
Jan 6, 2020 5:55 PM CST
Hmmm...be careful what you wish for.

I saw a photo online of this gorgeous cream rose with a slight red blush on the petal edges. No, it was not Double Delight. It was Summer Fashion, photo by Robert Martin. It was to die for. I searched for 3 years for it everywhere I could think of. Begged people on my forums to let me know if they found it anywhere. It finally showed up on Hortico's website one spring and I grabbed it! I was thrilled!! When it came I pampered it and dotted on it like a new Mom. Gave the best centerpiece spot in the garden and waited patiently for it to bloom. And waited. And waited. And waited. First it black spotted. Then it got mildew. Lost all it's leaves down to bare nekkid sticks. Some hoe it managed to survive the winter and the next spring it finally gave me ONE rose. It limped along that summer and came back the next spring. Each year getting smaller and smaller. It never bloomed again after that one flower. The 5th spring I dug out the tiny one cane wonder and tossed it.

I've never gone on a hunt for another elusive rose since. Instead I look for what is available and find surprises I like in those. Much less stressful and lots more fun
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AnnKNCalif
Jan 6, 2020 6:05 PM CST
fisherwoman - I just saw Whisky Mac at my local Home Depot yesterday. It had just been unloaded with other spring roses. Not sure where you live but it might be near you!

Ann
[Last edited by AnnKNCalif - Jan 6, 2020 6:40 PM (+)]
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Name: Beth
Northern California (Zone 9b)
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Beth_NorCal
Jan 6, 2020 6:25 PM CST
I just saw WHISKY MAC at the Home Depot in Red Bluff. I imagine the others will have it too. I didn't buy it because I think mine survived the fire. But I wonder if I should go back and get one just in case.... They also had ANISLEY DICKSON and ESMERALDA.

And Zuzu, I have a friend from the Facebook Rose Chat Group who is sending cuttings of SPELLCASTER to Jim at K&M Roses. I'm not sure when tho. I'll let you know when I find out for sure!

schrammd
Jan 6, 2020 6:45 PM CST
A rose I lost and long to own again, but it's sold nowhere according to the Combined Rose List is an early Hybrid Tea named 'Angele Pernet'. It's a desert-sienna gold with some orange and yellow to it. I keep hoping someone has it growing in a garden so that I might ask for a cutting or two. For now I have to content myself with the photos I once took of it. --Darrell
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Name: Beth
Northern California (Zone 9b)
Roses Enjoys or suffers hot summers Container Gardener Clematis Garden Photography Birds
Irises Keeper of Poultry Region: California Hummingbirder Cat Lover Lilies
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Beth_NorCal
Jan 6, 2020 7:08 PM CST
schrammd said:A rose I lost and long to own again, but it's sold nowhere according to the Combined Rose List is an early Hybrid Tea named 'Angele Pernet'. It's a desert-sienna gold with some orange and yellow to it. I keep hoping someone has it growing in a garden so that I might ask for a cutting or two. For now I have to content myself with the photos I once took of it. --Darrell
Thumb of 2020-01-07/schrammd/d90006
Thumb of 2020-01-07/schrammd/1a3f32



Rogue Valley Roses has it in stock right now.

https://roguevalleyroses.com/r...
Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
Charter ATP Member Region: California Cat Lover Roses Clematis Irises
Garden Ideas: Level 2 Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier Garden Sages Forum moderator Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
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zuzu
Jan 6, 2020 7:26 PM CST

Moderator

Where are you located, Darrell? If you're in the United States, you're in luck. I also saw Angele Pernet on the Rogue Valley Roses available list and thought of buying one, but the one I already have is limping along fairly well. If I could find a grafted one, I'd buy it in an instant.

It's a bad photo of it, however:

https://roguevalleyroses.com/r...

Wow, Beth, thanks for letting me know about Spellcaster. Spellcaster grafted onto fortuniana would be a sight to behold!

fisherwoman
Jan 6, 2020 8:54 PM CST
Last year I missed the rose shipment season at Home Depot, in years before they have been really good. It's where I got Bolero for 7 dollars. This coming Spring I'll sure make a point of hitting Home Depots garden center, in zone 5 I have to wait until April or May.
Name: Beth
Northern California (Zone 9b)
Roses Enjoys or suffers hot summers Container Gardener Clematis Garden Photography Birds
Irises Keeper of Poultry Region: California Hummingbirder Cat Lover Lilies
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Beth_NorCal
Jan 7, 2020 12:10 PM CST
Zuzu, I just talked to her last night and she hadn't sent them yet, and unfortunately won't be able to send any more cuttings to Jim for awhile. Apparently he's a little overwhelmed with grafting right now. He had lost a ton of their mother plants to an early heavy freeze, and had sent out pleas a couple months ago for cuttings of certain roses, and I'm sure was inundated with those, plus Dave Bang just sent him a bunch of cuttings so he can get set up to sell his gorgeous roses. Sooo... In a couple months she's going to send me some cuttings so I can try to root them. I need to replace my SPELLCASTER too. I'm hoping to get a nice greenhouse to start doing a lot of own root propagation of the rarer roses. John Bagnasco wanted me to get roses to him a few yrs ago, but I just didn't have the time. He and a bunch of us on the Facebook Rose Chat group are now trying to get all the rarest roses either rooted ourselves or sent to Jim, and Steve at Wisconsin Roses to bud and graft. I guess Rogue Valley Roses and Roses Unlimited want to get cuttings also. We're on a mission to save as many roses as we can from extinction!! John is going to San Jose Heritage Rose Garden in the coming months to start getting cuttings of their roses to try and save them. They apparently have lost or are losing many to gophers or ground squirrels. I'll let you know when I get the cuttings from her. And FYI the cuttings you sent me are looking quite good! I hope they all make it! Thank you so much. I might ask for cuttings of others of your rare roses in the future if you don't mind!
Name: Carol
Alberta, Canada (Zone 3b)
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Canadian_Rose
Jan 8, 2020 2:08 AM CST
Zuzu - oh my heavens!!! No wonder you're seeking those roses!!! Swoon!!!

The ones I've been looking for are:
1. Paradise Found....my favorite rose of all time...I still don't know why it died. The fragrance!!!!
2. Sedona - I've wanted to smell this one for its pear fragrance....I found it!!! It's coming this spring!!
3. Sheila's Perfume....ditto!!! except for the "pear" part.


schrammd
Jan 8, 2020 5:54 PM CST
Zuzu, Thank you. I'm in northern California as well. I'll look into Rogue Valley for 'Angele Pernet', but I've heard from a couple of sources that since Janet the owner has become ill, the service is not what it used to be, and a couple of customers have told me they've been sent the wrong rose, so I'm hesitant.
Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
Charter ATP Member Region: California Cat Lover Roses Clematis Irises
Garden Ideas: Level 2 Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier Garden Sages Forum moderator Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
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zuzu
Jan 8, 2020 6:26 PM CST

Moderator

Someone else has taken over for Janet, and judging by the new and orderly look of the website, I'm inclined to expect improvement across the board. I recently placed two orders after shying away from Rogue Valley Roses for years because of the mislabeling I had experienced in the past.
Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
Charter ATP Member Region: California Cat Lover Roses Clematis Irises
Garden Ideas: Level 2 Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier Garden Sages Forum moderator Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
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zuzu
Jan 8, 2020 6:33 PM CST

Moderator

Are you Darrell Schramm? If so, we're honored by your presence here and hope to hear much more from you.
Name: Carol
Alberta, Canada (Zone 3b)
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Canadian_Rose
Jan 8, 2020 7:07 PM CST
Zuzu....who is Darrell Schramm?
Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
Charter ATP Member Region: California Cat Lover Roses Clematis Irises
Garden Ideas: Level 2 Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier Garden Sages Forum moderator Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
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zuzu
Jan 8, 2020 7:31 PM CST

Moderator

He wrote this book and many magazine articles.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/1547175745/

I also feel an academic connection to him because he's also a retiree from the academic circus. Big Grin He taught poetry at USF and I taught Comp Lit at SFSU.
Name: Carol
Alberta, Canada (Zone 3b)
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Canadian_Rose
Jan 9, 2020 2:30 AM CST
Thank You! Zuzu Smiling

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