Plant ID forum→Please help identify

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St Louis
Green7humbs
Jan 25, 2020 9:57 PM CST
I've been looking to identify this succulent for about a year now. My friends keep giving me wrong info. Please help me!
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[Last edited by Green7humbs - Jan 25, 2020 10:50 PM (+)]
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Name: Daisy I
Reno, Nv (Zone 6b)
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DaisyI
Jan 25, 2020 11:05 PM CST
Cool plant! @Baja_Costero, @skopjecollection, any thoughts?
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Name: Stefan
SE europe(balkans) (Zone 6b)
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skopjecollection
Jan 25, 2020 11:14 PM CST
The trunk is yelling pachypodium at me, but the leaves are also telling me euphorbia. Ill check.
If it is pachypodium, maybe along the lines of succulentum and bispinosum.
If it is an euphorbia, maybe some kind of milii relative.
It could be some other pachycaul/caudiciform, but those are last priority.
St Louis
Green7humbs
Jan 25, 2020 11:31 PM CST
Euphoria Lathyris is the closest thing I can find to match the way mine is growing. The stems are very thin and long. The leaves harden up and drop off after just about a month and it turns into a spike. The trunk definitely resembles caudiciform. I'm new to all this and these words are all extremely scientific sounding. I hope I said all the right stuff.
Name: Stefan
SE europe(balkans) (Zone 6b)
Cactus and Succulents Orchids Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Garden Procrastinator Bulbs Foliage Fan
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skopjecollection
Jan 25, 2020 11:32 PM CST
First candidate :fouquieria purpusii
https://live.staticflickr.com/...
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-ibTE...
Name: Stefan
SE europe(balkans) (Zone 6b)
Cactus and Succulents Orchids Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Garden Procrastinator Bulbs Foliage Fan
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skopjecollection
Jan 25, 2020 11:33 PM CST
Green7humbs said:Euphoria Lathyris is the closest thing I can find to match the way mine is growing. The stems are very thin and long. The leaves harden up and drop off after just about a month and it turns into a spike. The trunk definitely resembles caudiciform. I'm new to all this and these words are all extremely scientific sounding. I hope I said all the right stuff.


Thats an annual /biannual...
St Louis
Green7humbs
Jan 25, 2020 11:36 PM CST
It's for sure fouquieria purpusii!!! Thanks so much for finding it. I was starting to think I had an undiscovered breed. HAH
[Last edited by Green7humbs - Jan 25, 2020 11:39 PM (+)]
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Name: Stefan
SE europe(balkans) (Zone 6b)
Cactus and Succulents Orchids Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Garden Procrastinator Bulbs Foliage Fan
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skopjecollection
Jan 25, 2020 11:41 PM CST
What sold foiqueria to me was noticing the double leaf emerging from the top "areole".
But you know, about 70% sure.
Name: Daisy I
Reno, Nv (Zone 6b)
Not all who wander are lost
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DaisyI
Jan 25, 2020 11:51 PM CST
That is a great plant! I nope you add it to the database.

Thank you Stefan. Thumbs up
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and proclaiming...."WOW What a Ride!!" -Mark Frost

President: Orchid Society of Northern Nevada
Webmaster: osnnv.org
Name: Stefan
SE europe(balkans) (Zone 6b)
Cactus and Succulents Orchids Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Garden Procrastinator Bulbs Foliage Fan
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skopjecollection
Jan 25, 2020 11:55 PM CST
DaisyI said:That is a great plant! I nope you add it to the database.

Thank you Stefan. Thumbs up


Id wait for @Baja_Costero to confirm though. Foiqueria is up her alley...
Name: Lin Vosbury
Sebastian, Florida (Zone 10a)

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plantladylin
Jan 26, 2020 7:09 AM CST
Here's our database entry for Ocotillo de Tehuacan (Fouquieria purpusii) and the only photo at the entry so far:

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St Louis
Green7humbs
Jan 26, 2020 9:48 AM CST
I'd like to add mine since there is only one. I'll have to look through the website and see if I can figure out how to do so.
Name: Stefan
SE europe(balkans) (Zone 6b)
Cactus and Succulents Orchids Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Garden Procrastinator Bulbs Foliage Fan
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skopjecollection
Jan 26, 2020 9:53 AM CST
Green7humbs said:I'd like to add mine since there is only one. I'll have to look through the website and see if I can figure out how to do so.


Just wait for that confirm. Its easy if you know how...
I could "propose " to add them now, but id rather hear the confirm first, than having to propose to move it later in case i am wrong..
Name: Baja
Baja California (Zone 11b)
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Baja_Costero
Jan 26, 2020 1:14 PM CST
One distinguishing feature of Fouquieria as a genus is that there are 2 types of leaves. One has a long petiole (leaf stalk) and the other does not. The first type of leaf gives rise to the spines (which are actually persistent petioles), the second type emerges near the base of existing spines. Here is an example from a different species so you can see the details up close:



If you look closely at the leaves on your plant and find evidence of this kind of behavior (typically only obvious during the peak of the season when new stems are actively elongating) then you have a higher likelihood of it being in that genus.

For what it's worth, F. purpusii is (or used to be) a fairly rare plant in cultivation, prized for its bottle-like stem with green and gray patterns.

One distinguishing feature of this species is the stem markings. These markings emerge pretty early on in the life of the stem. They consist of teardrop shaped spots below each spine which start out dark brown and fade to pale brown or gray, and are most evident on older (thicker) stems. These spots are visible on both skinny and fat stems in Kelli's database picture, and to varying degrees on these:

http://www.bihrmann.com/caudic...
https://www.cactusjungle.com/p...
https://planetdesert.com/produ...

I'm not really seeing them on the plant in the original photo, though they may be there and my eyes are failing me. Smiling

For what it's worth, that last link has an excellent picture of leaf type #1 with petioles about to become persistent.
[Last edited by Baja_Costero - Jan 26, 2020 1:17 PM (+)]
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Name: Stefan
SE europe(balkans) (Zone 6b)
Cactus and Succulents Orchids Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Garden Procrastinator Bulbs Foliage Fan
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skopjecollection
Jan 26, 2020 1:54 PM CST
I actually am seeing those teardrop things, but the lighting and the angle makes it really difficult. In addition, the caudex looks too old to display anything other than bark...
I think this plant has been pruned though..
I cropped and resized those teardrop things..



Thumb of 2020-01-26/skopjecollection/499dc1

[Last edited by skopjecollection - Jan 26, 2020 1:59 PM (+)]
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Name: Stefan
SE europe(balkans) (Zone 6b)
Cactus and Succulents Orchids Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Garden Procrastinator Bulbs Foliage Fan
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skopjecollection
Jan 26, 2020 1:56 PM CST
And now that i took a really good look at it, i actually notice the lack of spines on the younger stems, leading to me to notice what you said about them being leaves formerly...
https://images-na.ssl-images-a...
https://d17vsf20mehj1i.cloudfr...
I already mentioned the secondary(gen) leaf things that you told me about so...
[Last edited by skopjecollection - Jan 26, 2020 2:02 PM (+)]
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St Louis
Green7humbs
Jan 26, 2020 7:08 PM CST
I appreciate this info. I'm going to take a few more high resolution pictures in a couple hours and post them to help identify those inner leaf locations. I'm curious though if they don't exist on my plant it may also be due to my own fault? When I bought the plant back in June of 2019 it had lots of green leaves and looked amazing. When I got it home I transplanted it and I think I overwatered. I also put it underneath an unfiltered 600 watt light HPS grow light. Within a week all the leaves started to dry and sure enough all fell off. Long before the leaves fell off I pulled the plant in to a much darker room giving it just regular and slowed down the watering. I've been desperately in search to figure out what the genetics are so I can treat this plant how it wants to be treated and really let it grow. I'm just shocked to find out that the plant needs full sun and is also in the hardy category. I've certainly not been treating it like it wants so it's time for a change. Check back soon and I'll send a few close up pics. Thanks again!!!
Name: Carol
Santa Ana, ca
Sunset zone 22, USDA zone 10 A.
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ctcarol
Jan 26, 2020 8:01 PM CST
I didn't post because I didn't want to sound negative, but I was wondering if it was cultural too, or maybe a different cultivar in the same genus. It's a fascinating plant and I would hate for it to be mis-identified in our data base. Kudos, Green7humbs for questioning, rather than just accepting one opinion.
Name: Daisy I
Reno, Nv (Zone 6b)
Not all who wander are lost
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DaisyI
Jan 26, 2020 8:18 PM CST
Green7humbs, you may be expecting your plant to react to changes as fast as you do. Too many changes too fast and you don't know what caused what.

This type of plant, no matter what it turns out to be, needs full sun. It may have been the transplant or the overwatering that caused leaf drop and the only reason the plant survived was the full sun light bulb.

Here are a few "rules"" to be used for future reference. Don't transplant newly acquired plants, they rarely need it. But, if you do, don't water for at least a week because that will cause problems. Full sun is always best.

Plants react slowly to changes: you repot and a couple weeks later, all the leaves fall off. What caused it? Overwatering? Too much sun? Who knows?

Make one change at a time and space them out so the plant has a chance to react (the first change was a new environment).

Its still a beautiful plant and I hope someone figures it out because its already of my "want" list. Smiling
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and proclaiming...."WOW What a Ride!!" -Mark Frost

President: Orchid Society of Northern Nevada
Webmaster: osnnv.org
Name: Baja
Baja California (Zone 11b)
Cactus and Succulents Seed Starter Foliage Fan Xeriscape Container Gardener Hummingbirder
Native Plants and Wildflowers Garden Photography Region: Mexico Plant Identifier Forum moderator Plant Database Moderator
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Baja_Costero
Jan 26, 2020 8:40 PM CST
Green7humbs said:I've been desperately in search to figure out what the genetics are so I can treat this plant how it wants to be treated and really let it grow. I'm just shocked to find out that the plant needs full sun and is also in the hardy category. I've certainly not been treating it like it wants so it's time for a change.


For what it's worth, F. purpusii is a highland plant. It's found above 5000 feet in tropical Mexico. Intense summer sun there is not accompanied by heat the way it is in St. Louis at 500 feet. And I don't know if the plant needs full sun. I would say it does not. Most sun-loving plants do better in part sun (like 4-6h/day of direct sun) or filtered light (25-50% shade) when given the choice. I can say this from direct personal experience with a fair variety of sun-loving succulents, though not the species in question. And the database here indicates tolerance more than needs, when it comes to exposure, and those err on the side of what's possible in a permissive (mild) climate.

"Full sun" is defined as more than half a day (>6h/day) of direct outdoor sun. It is impossible to provide full sun indoors, because regular window glass filters out a lot of the UV part of the spectrum (which you can't see with the naked eye). Indoor sun is not direct, though you might not know by looking.

I would think natural light would be the best choice, if you can provide a very sunny southern exposure during winter. Like right in front of a southerly facing window. Be careful about introducing your plant to outdoor sun.... do it gradually, in steps, from bright shade to morning sun or filtered sun and so forth, over the course of weeks. The UV in direct (outdoor) sun can be punishing for plants that have not had time to adjust. And as Daisy said, try to change one thing at a time for best results.

Fouquierias have a season of active growth, which roughly follows the calendar (F. columnaris: winter) or depends on precipitation (F. splendens: various) or some combination of the two. This is when new stems are elongated and you see the type of leaf with long petioles. At this time they enjoy regular water when the soil is going dry at depth, and do not particularly enjoy sitting with dry soil for any extended period.

They also have a season of rest when they go somewhat or totally leafless, depending on genetics and conditions, and that's when they will only have short-petiole leaves, the kind that sprout from the base of the spines. During the season of rest you probably want to make sure the soil is going dry in between watering most of the time. If it occurs during winter, be aware that low light and low temps will tend to slow down the process of evaporation, which is the main route water will leave the container when the plant is not actively drinking. So do not overwater during the rest period, especially if it occurs during winter. Do not withhold water, either. I would think it's probably a good idea to keep temps above 45°F during winter if reasonably possible, despite the rated minimum of mature landscape plants.

Here in our mild climate I water my Fouquierias the same year round, but our climate is very mild (average high and low temps in December were 65°/53°F) and I definitely would not recommend that treatment elsewhere, especially if the plant endures a dramatic period of dormancy. F. purpusii will grow for most of the year if temps are moderately warm. It probably would be best to use a mix of 50% organic, 50% rock (or more rock if you're into watering a lot), which is what I use for my other F's.

Choice F. purpusii here from a grower's page (already sold) so you can see what proper care can give you.

http://raresucculents.com/extr...
[Last edited by Baja_Costero - Jan 26, 2020 9:00 PM (+)]
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