Irises forum: Final year of evaluation before introduction 2021

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NE Oregon (Zone 7b)
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TBManOR
Feb 15, 2020 10:58 PM CST
Last year of evaluation before making a decision to introduce.
2019 maiden bloom
36" 2 branches plus spur, 7-9 buds -- (one stalk had 11) hardy to cold, and botrytis tolerant (so far) super substance. In fact, i would gently touch the edge of the fall, and the petal was so stiff the entire stalk moved as a result.
Sdlng # TMM2015 - 4
Thumb of 2020-02-16/TBManOR/47bd0d

Thumb of 2020-02-16/TBManOR/d942c7

Magical X (Ivory Blush x Game Plan)

slight musky fragrance. If it pleases me this year, it'll get a name.
I love this yummy color combo of pink/pinkish apricot. The beards come from Game Plan.


[Last edited by TBManOR - Feb 15, 2020 11:28 PM (+)]
Give a thumbs up | Quote | Post #2158441 (1)
Name: Barbara
Northern CA (Zone 9a)
Region: California Cat Lover Irises Enjoys or suffers hot summers Dog Lover
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iciris
Feb 15, 2020 11:31 PM CST
Very beautiful! I love the soft pastel colors (I always have). I like the little bit of the darker apricot on the rim of the falls. The standards are a beautiful soft pink.
• “Whoever said, ‘Do something right and you won’t have to do it again’ never weeded a garden.” – Anonymous
NE Oregon (Zone 7b)
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TBManOR
Feb 15, 2020 11:40 PM CST
Magical seems to beautify any cross, made with it as a parent. I'll for sure be using Magical more often this year. I don't know whether the above sdling is pollen or pod fertile, but if it is, it'll be used heavily in crosses this year, even if i don't choose to introduce it.
The peachy pink color class is fairly crowded, but there are enough different traits in this seedling to warrant serious consideration. The beards are a clincher for me -- love prominent and showy beards.
Name: Tom
Southern Wisconsin (Zone 5b)
Irises Vegetable Grower Butterflies Region: Wisconsin Keeps Horses Cat Lover
Dog Lover Keeper of Poultry Daylilies Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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tveguy3
Feb 16, 2020 5:54 AM CST
Very nice, Magical sure is a good parent, and it is very hardy here in the cold region. I enjoy the peachy melon colors of iris. This one looks like a keeper. Hurray!
Voltaire: "Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities,"
Name: Lucy
Hamilton, MA (Zone 6b)
irises
Charter ATP Member Cottage Gardener Enjoys or suffers cold winters Region: United Kingdom Region: Northeast US Irises
Region: United States of America
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irisarian
Feb 16, 2020 8:59 AM CST
I loved Magical when I saw it in Wisconsin. figured if hardy there, it would be hardy in New England as well.
Name: Darrell
Piketon, Ohio (Zone 6b)
Irises Organic Gardener
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Hybridizer
Feb 16, 2020 9:18 AM CST
Very nice iris. What year was the cross made?
NE Oregon (Zone 7b)
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TBManOR
Feb 16, 2020 9:27 AM CST
Hybridizer said:Very nice iris. What year was the cross made?


2015, but the seed was very slow to germinate, and none of the first year germination survived, but i kept the pot that the cross was sown in and early 2017, a single seedling appeared. That was the plant and bloom you see in this post.

Name: Darrell
Piketon, Ohio (Zone 6b)
Irises Organic Gardener
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Hybridizer
Feb 16, 2020 9:37 AM CST
TBManOR said:

2015, but the seed was very slow to germinate, and none of the first year germination survived, but i kept the pot that the cross was sown in and early 2017, a single seedling appeared. That was the plant and bloom you see in this post.



That's amazing. I hope to see it introduced.
Name: Elsa
Las Cruces, New Mexico (Zone 8a)
Region: New Mexico Region: United States of America Irises Region: Southwest Gardening Dog Lover
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GreenIris
Feb 16, 2020 10:58 AM CST
I am an orange/pink combo nut. . I have many. And this one is prettier than any I have. Definitely worth introducing in my opinion.

So I have a question though for the hybridizers in general. I keep hearing talk of high bud counts. Is having a high bud count a requirement in order to introduce an iris or is it just important for winning awards.
This is why I ask. My personal standards are different. I want something that blooms every year , if possible, doesn't kill itself by overproducing, in other words thrives. Also I am always looking for unique bloom color combos; etc. I just wonder if sometimes someone might throw out, say a rare colored bloom or a rebloomer cause it doesn't have a high bud count.
I know everyone has different standards and I am just one person in the whole Iris loving sea but for me high bud counts are just a nice to have.
I think the people who grow Irises are about as special as the flower itself!
NE Oregon (Zone 7b)
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TBManOR
Feb 16, 2020 11:54 AM CST
(disclaimer: the below in only my personal take on the above question and may not be a complete answer. )

I can't speak for other iris hybridizers, but in general, a decent bud/bloom count ensures a longer bloom period for that particular variety. It is not an absolute, but a MUCH desired trait in new cultivars. High bud counts and bloom potential and garden presence/show bench material seem important to a significant number of irisarians. The other traits you've mentioned are important/essential, but if you are planning on people actually paying for the privilege to grow your seedling, it all starts with the bloom impact.
(Again, IMHO, nothing more)

Cultivars with only a few, lets say, 4-6 buds per stalk would either have to throw a multitude of stalks for a good garden show, or the individual flowers would need to be very long lasting, since each bloom lasts only a few days.

Most tall bearded iris open their flowers successively, starting with the terminal bud and then working downward. Such an low bud count iris, if its hardy, grows well and blooms reliably, and increases well, could be introduced, but mostly likely would not win any awards, and the hybridizer would need to be honest about the trait, AND market it on its other merits, rather than multiplicity of bloom.

So to answer your question -- you don't absolutely HAVE to intro a seedling IMHO with a high bud count, but decades of iris shows, competitive show exhibition, regional and national award symposium competition, and every higher retail prices for new hybrids have set an artificial high bar for new iris. Plus the fact that there are over 80,000+ registered iris in the bearded class. One needs to carefully evaluate and consider if your candidate measures up.

There have been Dykes Medal and Wister Medal award winners that did not exhibit all of your garden criteria, Elsa, that became popular with the iris public. Decadence, and Sea Power are 2 that come to my mind.

However, I don't believe that great health and garden habits vs high bud counts and branching are mutually exclusive and I firmly hold to the notion that most relevant criteria can be achieved with all the breeding material out there. The main issue is educating hybridizers both new and experienced, thoroughly on what is now the accepted standard(s) for flowering and gardenability that the irisarian gardening public expects.

Apologies for my long winded answer, im sure there are gaps that need addressed :)


Name: Robin
Melbourne, Australia (Zone 10b)
Region: Australia Irises Garden Photography Cat Lover Seed Starter
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Totally_Amazing
Feb 16, 2020 4:03 PM CST
That's a beautiful seedling Tim and I noticed the beards straight away Lovey dubby
Name: Elsa
Las Cruces, New Mexico (Zone 8a)
Region: New Mexico Region: United States of America Irises Region: Southwest Gardening Dog Lover
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GreenIris
Feb 16, 2020 5:13 PM CST
Tim: I really didn't make the connection between high bud count and longer flowering period. I see it's value now though and I truly appreciate the answer.
I think the people who grow Irises are about as special as the flower itself!
Name: Darrell
Piketon, Ohio (Zone 6b)
Irises Organic Gardener
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Hybridizer
Feb 16, 2020 6:13 PM CST
I have irises that have 6-7 buds per stalk with great branching that put on an incredible show because their blooms do not open into other blooms. On the other hand, I have irises with 11-12 blooms per stalk that put on a miserable garden show because the blooms open into each other and it just looks terrible. Just my personal observations. Faithful annual bloom, good increase, and insect/disease resistance is most important to me. A good iris with 5-6 buds per stalk is very welcome in my garden.
Name: Evelyn
Sierra foothills, Northern CA (Zone 8a)
Garden Procrastinator Irises Bee Lover Butterflies Plant and/or Seed Trader Region: California
Cat Lover Deer Bulbs Foliage Fan Annuals Seed Starter
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evelyninthegarden
Feb 16, 2020 6:29 PM CST
H ~ You have the right idea! Thumbs up
"Luck favors the prepared mind." - Thomas Jefferson
Name: Lucy
Hamilton, MA (Zone 6b)
irises
Charter ATP Member Cottage Gardener Enjoys or suffers cold winters Region: United Kingdom Region: Northeast US Irises
Region: United States of America
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irisarian
Feb 16, 2020 9:15 PM CST
even in the medians, bud count is important. My BB 'Hi Buddy' got its name because it has 7 buds as opposed to its pod parent which has 5. The pod parent is a growing fool, but the child is the one which was introduced. Hi Buddy also grows well, but I waited to it appeared for introduction.
Name: Elsa
Las Cruces, New Mexico (Zone 8a)
Region: New Mexico Region: United States of America Irises Region: Southwest Gardening Dog Lover
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GreenIris
Feb 16, 2020 10:52 PM CST
Great info!!! Thanks again!
I think the people who grow Irises are about as special as the flower itself!
Name: Daisy
close to Baltimore, MD (Zone 7a)
Irises Cat Lover Plant and/or Seed Trader Organic Gardener Region: Maryland Bookworm
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DaisyDo
Feb 17, 2020 1:58 AM CST
Yes, I dislike it when the blooms are spaced so closely together that they become a mish-mash. That's what happened with my Seapower last year. I'll be giving it a couple more chances to straighten itself out but if it doesn't I'll be culling it.
Name: Tom
Southern Wisconsin (Zone 5b)
Irises Vegetable Grower Butterflies Region: Wisconsin Keeps Horses Cat Lover
Dog Lover Keeper of Poultry Daylilies Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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tveguy3
Feb 17, 2020 3:43 AM CST
I would recommend anyone that has the opportunity, to go through some judges training. There are so many factors to consider when hybridizing. I believe we are doing a dis-service to the greater good of the iris population by not considering all of these characteristics when creating new generations of irises. If you raise an iris that has a lot of good characteristics, but low bud count, you can use that in breeding, hoping to get another similar bloom, but with improved bud count. This might take years to achieve, but worth the effort.
Voltaire: "Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities,"
Name: Darrell
Piketon, Ohio (Zone 6b)
Irises Organic Gardener
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Hybridizer
Feb 17, 2020 6:58 AM CST
tveguy3 said:I would recommend anyone that has the opportunity, to go through some judges training. There are so many factors to consider when hybridizing. I believe we are doing a dis-service to the greater good of the iris population by not considering all of these characteristics when creating new generations of irises. If you raise an iris that has a lot of good characteristics, but low bud count, you can use that in breeding, hoping to get another similar bloom, but with improved bud count. This might take years to achieve, but worth the effort.


I agree and I went through a judges training last spring. I just feel that an iris with 6-7 buds and with all other great characteristics should be introduced. Irises with 5-6 buds should not be introduced, but as you said Tom, they should be used in your breeding program if that is the only undesirable characteristic.
Name: Lucy
Hamilton, MA (Zone 6b)
irises
Charter ATP Member Cottage Gardener Enjoys or suffers cold winters Region: United Kingdom Region: Northeast US Irises
Region: United States of America
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irisarian
Feb 17, 2020 7:21 AM CST
the prettiest flower is no good on a poor plant. hybridizing is a lot of work.

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