Daylilies forum: Why purchase entire collection of new intros?

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Name: Dennis
SW Michigan (Zone 5a)
Daylilies
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Dennis616
Feb 26, 2020 4:26 PM CST
Hoping some of you can shed a little light on something I'm curious about--

When hybridizers update their websites with all their new introductions for the coming year, they often give a collection price for purchasing all of them (or maybe a large subset of them like all the tets or dips).

Have any of you, or someone you know, purchased a whole collection from a hybridizer? Why? What are the reasons to do that? I'm just curious—there probably are some reasons that should be fairly obvious but they're escaping me Maybe I'm missing out Hilarious!

I frequently see hybridizers give a discount to daylily clubs purchasing the collection. Anyone know the reasons why clubs would buy the collection? Again, just curious—I know this has been talked about a bit in the past but I can't seem to remember... D'Oh! Maybe just pointing me to the thread that previously discussed this would be helpful too

Also, how common do you think it is that collections are purchased?

Thumb of 2020-02-26/Dennis616/63dc4f


Name: Larry
Enterprise, Al. 36330 (Zone 8b)
Composter Daylilies Garden Photography Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Identifier
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Region: Alabama
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Seedfork
Feb 26, 2020 4:32 PM CST
I know people do it, but I never thought about a reason...other than to get the discount, and the fact that they had way more money than I do.
Name: Frank Richards
Clinton, Michigan (Zone 5b)

Garden Ideas: Master Level Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier
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frankrichards16
Feb 26, 2020 4:48 PM CST
Here are my guesses...

Most new daylilies are not patented, so the breeders need to ask high prices to compensate for their work. Sale prices mean more money.

Many suppliers can easily make their investments back by buying entire collections.

And, many people have more money than @seedfork and me.
Name: Dennis
SW Michigan (Zone 5a)
Daylilies
Image
Dennis616
Feb 26, 2020 4:55 PM CST
So far we've got:

1. Get the discount. You spend more total money, but the cost per plant is lower. So a good deal if you can afford it I guess. Although you obviously need to have the room to plant all of them, and are happy having so many dls from one hybridizer...

2. Nurseries buy to re-sell. This makes sense. They figure if they will be able to sell enough of the dls they will more than get there money back.

Curious if there are more reasons.

And curious what daylily clubs are doing buying collections-- I have not joined one yet so no idea...
Name: Dennis
SW Michigan (Zone 5a)
Daylilies
Image
Dennis616
Feb 26, 2020 5:36 PM CST
Hopefully some additional responses will trickle in but in the meantime I'll take a shot at guessing:

A daylily collector or hybridizer is a fan of another hybridizer (pun intended), so they like to maintain a large collection of that hybridizer's dls. Of course being a fan of say, Gossard, would mean buying one heck of a whole lot of dls every year! Maybe they just buy a collection every now and then when they are particularly smitten by that years intros.

A daylily hybridizer is working on the same features as another hybridizer, and so he or she buys the collection to do a massive outbreeding of their lines with that other hybridizer's lines.

For daylily clubs, perhaps they will occasionally buy a collection of a hybridizer in their region to support that hybridizer. As a side benefit, members get to share in a bunch of the latest and greatest intros. And they can possibly recoup their costs through sales and auctions.

That's all I got right now...
Name: Tina
Greenup, Ky (Zone 6b)
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beenthere
Feb 26, 2020 7:02 PM CST
I was dying to buy Nordstrom's 2020 collection at Northern Lights daylilies, but could only justify one that would further my hybridizing goals. I mean $200 for 5 new intros!! What a bargain. Had I been a collector, instead of being involved (addicted) in hybridizing, I would have gone for the whole bunch. Most collections are way, way out of my financial comfort zone. Plus, since I'm trying to cross different "lines" of patterned daylilies to hopefully avoid the deleterious effects of inbreeding, I don't want all one "line" or collection.

Crack Me Up. The one I did buy. I've tried to buy Little Leprechaun for a few years. This and Popoki Pookie are it's children, so that will do.
Name: Ashton & Terry
Jones, OK (Zone 7a)
Windswept Farm & Gardens
Hostas Lilies Hybridizer Keeps Sheep Pollen collector Irises
Hummingbirder Region: United States of America Daylilies Region: Oklahoma Butterflies Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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kidfishing
Feb 26, 2020 7:53 PM CST
I bought an entire collection one time. When I first joined AHS I got a voucher and the hybridizer offered to double the voucher value on a full collection. I don't recall how many total plants but they were some that really interested me in my early hybridizing years. My reason for buying was hybridizing.

This was years ago but, unfortunately it did not work out very well. The daylilies were northern grown and shipping got delayed a couple of times due to weather or late spring. I don't recall. It was very late May when they were shipped. That year it got 97f on May 24 and that was the second coolest day until Sept 17th. The plants grew and bloomed and set seeds. Every pod cooked and died and so did all the plants even with my full attention trying to take great care of them. Not one survivor and nothing from my purchase.

No fault of the hybridizer or myself but I have not considered buying another full collection. I don't even mention the hybridizer since it is no reflection on his program. No, I did not complain or even mention my misfortune.

From an experience like that, I think long and hard about any expensive plant purchase, but have made some since.
Kidfishing
Name: Steve Todd
Illinois (Zone 5b)
Region: Illinois Plant and/or Seed Trader Daylilies Enjoys or suffers cold winters
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Ahead
Feb 26, 2020 8:07 PM CST
Yes, I have....for different reasons.

Once, only once I think, I bought an entire collection because I had to have a daylily, that was a collection only plant. BASS GIBSON. I made the money back many times over on seed selling. I lucked out because it was such a fine collection too. In fact, I still grow many of them, but not BASS...lol.

Polston...a few times, mainly dips. I have always loved his dips. Davi, of course, simply because I needed them all...lol.

Name: Dennis
SW Michigan (Zone 5a)
Daylilies
Image
Dennis616
Feb 27, 2020 6:04 AM CST
Wow kidfishing that is an incredible, and sad, story!

Steve, good point that sometimes a daylily is only made available in a collection.

Sounds like perhaps the same people are not frequently buying collections (well maybe a bit of an exception for Steve Big Grin ). But maybe enough people do it every now and then to keep the hybridizers offering collections. The unknown factor is how often daylily clubs are buying collections...


Name: Larry
Enterprise, Al. 36330 (Zone 8b)
Composter Daylilies Garden Photography Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Identifier
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Region: Alabama
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Seedfork
Feb 27, 2020 9:02 AM CST
I did notice in the Floyd Cove catalog this year (might always have been like this I don't know) that the collections were broken down into some small divisions:
2020 Pattern Collection: $810.00 value- for $710.00 5 plants
2020 Appliques Collection: $520.00 value- for $445.00 4 plants
2020 Teeth and Teeth With Patterns Collection: $845.00 value-for $745.00 4 plants
2020 Red Collection: $1070.00 value-for $850.00 6 plants
Now if our club would go for the total 2020 intro package of 41 Plants they could save a whopping $1450 dollars
$7,130.00 value- for $5680.00. I don't think our little club with the members probably most on social security would go for that deal, we could get two plants each out of it.
Heck I am pleased to just have six of the older varieties being shipped.
Name: pam
gainesville fl (Zone 8b)
Bee Lover Hummingbirder Dragonflies Native Plants and Wildflowers Enjoys or suffers hot summers Daylilies
Butterflies The WITWIT Badge Birds Pollen collector
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gardenglory
Feb 27, 2020 9:27 AM CST
I would do it only to get a plant that I 'needed' but was only sold in the collection. There is no plant I need for 5840$ so I would not have bought that whole collection for a plant. I did buy some floyd cove plants this year and some spacecoast. We shall see. Its been a few years since I added plants. Excited for the moment.
Name: Sue
Vermont (Zone 5a)
Daylilies Region: Vermont Garden Procrastinator Seed Starter Plant and/or Seed Trader
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SueVT
Feb 27, 2020 9:28 AM CST
What I notice is that many hybridizers register plants that to my eye are almost the same, with only slight differences. I am always surprised by this, but now I just chalk it up to "this is what people do". So to buy an entire collection, I would have to be impressed by the true quality and variety being presented.

Looking at the daylily sales page on FB, I also notice that there are a ton of gorgeous registered plants that I have never heard of. However, many of them are almost indistinguishable from plants I am familiar with. Were these part of a collection initially?

How much of this practice of collection buying (would you say) is related to groupthink/social networking reasons vs. purchasing plants that would actually build out an interesting garden or forward one's hybridizing goals? That is, do we acquire positive social cachet from being able to say that we bought someone's entire collection, if that someone is a popular hybridizer? Thinking

And, I think that Bass Gibson and Forestlake Ragamuffin are still very interesting, considering the ways they continue to be used! Hilarious!
Suevt on the LA
Name: Ed Burton
East Central Wisconsin (Zone 5a)
Hybridizing, Lily Auction seed sell
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Tomato Heads Garden Photography Seed Starter Pollen collector Peonies
Hybridizer Hummingbirder Hostas Butterflies Birds Region: Wisconsin
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EdBurton
Feb 27, 2020 9:35 AM CST
It reminds me of the days when you had to buy the album to get the one song you really wanted
Ed Burton

seed seller "gramps"
Name: Davi (Judy) Davisson
Sherrills Ford, NC (Zone 7a)
Davi
Feb 27, 2020 10:46 AM CST
I have purchased as well as sold many "whole collections" and the reasons for buying are varied.

Yes, many clubs buy collections as part of their rewards programs for members. They often buy collections a few years before hosting regional or national conventions so that members' gardens will have newer plants. They also buy to have a more interesting auction or plant sale which will boost their membership since the new intros are often restricted to "members only".

I consider a collection as a way to tap into a hybridizer's line which has been years or even decades in the making. Most hybridizers are not fully exploring ALL the possibilities within their own line. Instead of outcrossing, the value in the collection is continuing the line breeding by either crossing their related lines to each other or with your own related lines via "kissing cousins".

Whole collections also go to people who consider them a good investment. I once added up the cost of the best ones in a collection and discovered it was cheaper to get the whole collection. The plan was then to sell off the ones that I didn't particularly like to recoup part of that investment. But each and every time I have purchased a whole collection, I've made a profit on it. Hybridizers tend to send their very best plants to collection buyers so selling off increase fans and plants that I didn't want to grow on has enabled me to have each collection "for free" while using them for a few years in my hybridizing program. Seed sellers often recoup their entire investment and get to keep the plants!! Win win! Walk in sales gardens can also take advantage of the collection's lower cost per plant. If a high demand "hot" one that is sold out is part of the collection, all the better! And most of all, it encourages your favorite hybridizers to stay in business by letting them know you love their work! Mentoring and advice comes free with collections!

And then there are the private collectors who buy from a favorite hybridizer every single year!! And there are "emerging markets" other than the United States....a lot of collections go out of the country.
[Last edited by Davi - Feb 27, 2020 12:27 PM (+)]
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Name: Larry
Enterprise, Al. 36330 (Zone 8b)
Composter Daylilies Garden Photography Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Identifier
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Region: Alabama
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Seedfork
Feb 27, 2020 11:06 AM CST
Davi said: And there are "emerging markets" other than the United States....a lot of collections go out of the country.

It does seem the money for buying expensive plants is often from foreign buyers...drat!
Name: Dennis
SW Michigan (Zone 5a)
Daylilies
Image
Dennis616
Feb 27, 2020 11:32 AM CST
I find the practice of making a special daylily only available in a collection interesting. If that special daylily was made available separately as normal, they almost certainly would sell some. So if it was only available in a collection, and they sold almost no collections, then they'd missing out on sales. So it must be that they do sell collections somewhat frequently.

Davi, those are some great points, thanks for sharing. Thumbs up You've revealed that it actually can be worth the money in some circumstances! And I didn't think of the possibility of continuing the hybridizer's line breeding oneself. Interesting!
Name: Larry
Enterprise, Al. 36330 (Zone 8b)
Composter Daylilies Garden Photography Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Identifier
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Region: Alabama
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Seedfork
Feb 27, 2020 11:44 AM CST
I wonder about those plants only in a collection, was it because they were not good multipliers and only a very few plants with an extraordinary bloom were available?
Name: Davi (Judy) Davisson
Sherrills Ford, NC (Zone 7a)
Davi
Feb 27, 2020 12:21 PM CST
I would not make that assumption, Larry, that the collection only plant is a poor increaser. More than likely, it is a highly desirable hybridizing plant. I would instead assume that he fills quite a few collection orders and doesn't want to disappoint those who place orders year after year for the whole collection.
Name: Larry
Enterprise, Al. 36330 (Zone 8b)
Composter Daylilies Garden Photography Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Identifier
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Region: Alabama
Image
Seedfork
Feb 27, 2020 2:35 PM CST
Not assuming, merely wondering about the slow growers. I do like the explanation better by Davi, but I was actually assuming that there would seldom be a lot of buyers for expensive collections? Can anyone give a reasonable guess for how many collections a grower would sell, say in the $2,000 to $5,000 range? Not trying to get personal about incomes just I would be surprised if a single seller sold many full collections.Talking just ball park figure, and no seller mentioned by name.
Name: pam
gainesville fl (Zone 8b)
Bee Lover Hummingbirder Dragonflies Native Plants and Wildflowers Enjoys or suffers hot summers Daylilies
Butterflies The WITWIT Badge Birds Pollen collector
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gardenglory
Feb 27, 2020 3:07 PM CST
All I can say about that is I know Nicole Harry used to sell more overseas, and it was more that i would have ever thought. When shipping got banned.......... Whistling

As far intros in collections, I remember when Frank Smith did that with Elvis, because he thought it was to short to sell. It just came like a bonus.

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