Roses forum→Rose/ clematis pairings

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Name: Teresa Cole
Bayfield, Colorado S.W. Rockie (Zone 4b)
8000 ft. Up
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ttkc4704
Mar 23, 2020 9:04 AM CST
The latest newsletter showcases clematis climbing through roses to continue bloom interest, and I was wondering if anyone out there has stumbled upon a particularly lovely combination.
Weed= A flower yet to be appreciated
Name: Mike
Long Beach, Ca.
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Roses Region: California Hummingbirder Farmer
Daylilies Cat Lover Bulbs Butterflies Birds Garden Ideas: Level 1
Calsurf73
Mar 23, 2020 10:16 AM CST
There are numerous combinations of roses and clematis growing together. Many people like to mix contrasting colors of each for impact, such as a pink rose and a purple clematis.
Name: Luda
Seattle WA (Zone 8b)
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mishkab
Mar 23, 2020 11:18 AM CST
I grow many clematises through roses. There are endless combinations. I plant them according to my mood at that particular moment. I love blue/purple clematises with yellow/ orange roses, and red rose with white/ pink clematis and vice versa. Clematis is a very diverse group of plants. You can plant clematises that flower before the rose, with the rose or after the rose. There are different requirements for clematis pruning that you have to keep in mind as well. There is a whole book about growing clematises with roses: The Rose and the Clematis : As Good Companions
by John Howells
Do you have any particular rose or clematis you trying to combine with?
Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
Charter ATP Member Region: California Cat Lover Roses Clematis Irises
Garden Ideas: Level 2 Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier Garden Sages Forum moderator Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
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zuzu
Mar 23, 2020 11:34 AM CST

Moderator

Here's another article:

https://garden.org/ideas/view/...

And here's a pertinent thread:

The thread "Clematis/Rose Combinations" in Clematis forum
Tuscany, Italy
bart2018
Mar 24, 2020 8:07 AM CST
The blues and purples of the clematis group seem to me to be the best of all to grow with roses, but I am crazy about blues,cool pinks, mauves,violets,and dark, dark,dark burgundy-type reds-these are the dominant colours of my garden. However, I am far, far behind in my clematis collecting and companion planting in general,and only have a few clematis that I have managed to get to grow as of yet. In the past I just planted them out when I bought them, but since then have discovered that it is much wiser to grow them up a bit in a pot at home before planting them out.Keep in mind, though, that my garden has very challenging conditions-above all, the searingly hot summers with drought lasting for months,and the lack of running water. These two factors mean that1)plants only can get watered in their first year,after which they have to rely on rainfall and 2) the fact that I have to bring in water from elsewhere to fill up my storage tanks means that I am very cheap with watering even in the first year. Clematis, apparently, have more trouble with this regime than roses do, though what with the climate changes (summers have become much, much hotter and drier and longer) I am finding that it's better to grow the roses up in pots until they reach a certain size.
In the newsletter, they say to avoid planting Montanas with roses,but I have two Montanas: one new , which I put near Climbing Old Blush,and one that is now mature,which rambles over an old metal cart in my garden; on the other sides of this eyesore I have the rambling rose "May Queen", and the shrub "Carefree Beauty".So I think it can work out,as long as the Montana has a structure of its' own up which it can grow,and that the roses that are near it are vigorous ones. The Montanas have the virtue of starting to bloom very early in the season, and they literally cover themselves in flowers, and are so perfumed. Late-blooming clematis-and roses, for that matter-don't have much appeal for me; here it gets so unbearably hot by mid June that I just don't want to even be outside,and the heat makes the flowers blow so fast anyway, so why bother.
Name: Teresa Cole
Bayfield, Colorado S.W. Rockie (Zone 4b)
8000 ft. Up
Image
ttkc4704
Mar 24, 2020 9:53 AM CST
mishkab said:I grow many clematises through roses. There are endless combinations. I plant them according to my mood at that particular moment. I love blue/purple clematises with yellow/ orange roses, and red rose with white/ pink clematis and vice versa. Clematis is a very diverse group of plants. You can plant clematises that flower before the rose, with the rose or after the rose. There are different requirements for clematis pruning that you have to keep in mind as well. There is a whole book about growing clematises with roses: The Rose and the Clematis : As Good Companions
by John Howells
Do you have any particular rose or clematis you trying to combine with?


Thanks! I will look for this book. I have a huge old rose bush ( just rose colored singles) that came with the property, and a purplish magenta German Pavement rose I planted 2 yrs ago. I love sweet Autumn Clematis but it can be rampant and heavy for climbing through roses don't you think? I like to see the roses bloom by themselves, then see the clematis at other times. The Montana might look good in the early spring. Would appreciate your examples
Weed= A flower yet to be appreciated
Name: SoCal
Orange County (Zone 10a)
Lazy Gardener
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SoCalGardenNut
Mar 24, 2020 11:48 AM CST
I hope they grow here, I take any color with any crazy combination.
I try to grow everything, sometime not successful.
Name: Luda
Seattle WA (Zone 8b)
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mishkab
Mar 24, 2020 1:33 PM CST
Montana is too heavy as well plus I am not sure if you can grow them in your zone. Sweet Autumn is rampant and group 3, which means you have to take all the tangle form prickly branches. If you want clematis flowering before the rose a good candidates are alpinas and macropetalias. They don't need pruning, just tidying up after flowering. They very hardy. The challenge with macropetalias /alpinas is that they need very good drainage. If you can add a bit of gravel at the planting site it would be great. Another option for you might be some smaller clematises from group 3. Group 3 start flowering later usually June -July. Examples are Raymond Evison's cultivars or Uno Kivistik's. Also I like Intergrifolia group (Inspiration, Roguchi, Arabella) They are group 3 and not vining, which means you cut them and just pull out from branches. What color of clematis is on your mind?
Name: seil
St Clair Shores, MI (Zone 6a)
Roses Garden Photography Region: Michigan
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seilMI
Mar 24, 2020 1:45 PM CST
I've tried this a couple of times with little success. They didn't want to grow together, pruning both of them was a nightmare and I never succeeded in getting them to bloom together. I finally separated them. They both seem happier now. I know I am!
Name: Teresa Cole
Bayfield, Colorado S.W. Rockie (Zone 4b)
8000 ft. Up
Image
ttkc4704
Mar 26, 2020 9:06 AM CST
mishkab said:I grow many clematises through roses. There are endless combinations. I plant them according to my mood at that particular moment. I love blue/purple clematises with yellow/ orange roses, and red rose with white/ pink clematis and vice versa. Clematis is a very diverse group of plants. You can plant clematises that flower before the rose, with the rose or after the rose. There are different requirements for clematis pruning that you have to keep in mind as well. There is a whole book about growing clematises with roses: The Rose and the Clematis : As Good Companions
by John Howells
Do you have any particular rose or clematis you trying to combine with?


* just ordered a used copy of your book suggestion from eBay for 5$! Thanks, I can't wait.
Weed= A flower yet to be appreciated
Name: David Tillyer
New York City (Zone 7b)
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BigAppleRoseGuy
Mar 27, 2020 2:11 PM CST
Seil. This has been my experience. I have a Golden Celebration in the middle of a wonderful Clematis Jackmanii. It was sensational for a couple of years, but these
days the vine has taken off and I only get one or two blossoms on the smothered
poor rose bush. This is the year when I prune heavily!
David
Name: SoCal
Orange County (Zone 10a)
Lazy Gardener
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SoCalGardenNut
Mar 27, 2020 2:36 PM CST
Good thing I lost my Jackmanii, I got it on sale from J&P, my husband planted near my Wedgewood rose, but I see no sign of it now.
I try to grow everything, sometime not successful.
United Kingdom
Growmore
Mar 28, 2020 7:00 PM CST
Perhaps I am of the, 'Old school'. Being a rosarian. I along with countless other have for the most part considered roses to be grown selectly. Meaning a rose bed is home only to roses, albiet a group planting of a single variety. This practice also applying to climbers etc and other climbing plants.

Then in more recent times, times have changed. Now rose beds are often underplanted with heavens knows what. Inter mixing with climbing plants. I prefer to keep the two.........seperate. Having said that. I have only a small garden. So my climbing and rambler roses are close together and I have deliberately tied them in so as to form a mixed presentation.

Growin roses in with clematis and lonicera, for me, a no go. I have found that clematis and lonicera both can be rampant growers and given the chance will choke to death everythingelse, just as common ivy does. Both clematis and lonicera grow fast and in that course there can be long lengths of growth void of foliage, this so often dies, especially with clematis. So your prized rose is now somewhere in that mass of birdnesting dead or dying structure. In the case of lonicera. You could end up with the whole garden wrapped up in it and just a few flowers here and there. Each to their own. I prefer to stick to the older plans.
Name: Luda
Seattle WA (Zone 8b)
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mishkab
Mar 30, 2020 6:27 PM CST
Yes, you really need to know what you're doing when you plant clematis and rose together. I am more clematis person than rose one and I started to grow roses as a trellises for clematis D'Oh! Rolling on the floor laughing When people talk clematis, usually, they think about Jackmanii, or Nelly Mother, or Etoile Violette. Those are old monsters, vigorous and beautiful. They can gobble up modern climber in no time. Nowadays clematis hybridization goes in the direction of producing plants for smaller gardens. Modern cultivars are between 4 to 8 feet or even 2-3' that can grow in a hanging basket with flowering season from May till frost. You can find a good match for your rose keeping in mind different parameters like height, vigor, pruning type. I have containers with rose and clematis growing together. It is third year and they still OK. When I was doing research about growing clematis and rose in the same container the answer was no no. But I like to experiment and so far so good. The book that I mention before helped me a lot.
Name: Christopher
New Brunswick, NJ, USA (Zone 7a)
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AquaEyes
Mar 30, 2020 7:16 PM CST
Growmore said:Perhaps I am of the, 'Old school'. Being a rosarian. I along with countless other have for the most part considered roses to be grown selectly. Meaning a rose bed is home only to roses, albiet a group planting of a single variety. This practice also applying to climbers etc and other climbing plants.

Then in more recent times, times have changed. Now rose beds are often underplanted with heavens knows what. Inter mixing with climbing plants. I prefer to keep the two.........seperate. Having said that. I have only a small garden. So my climbing and rambler roses are close together and I have deliberately tied them in so as to form a mixed presentation.

Growin roses in with clematis and lonicera, for me, a no go. I have found that clematis and lonicera both can be rampant growers and given the chance will choke to death everythingelse, just as common ivy does. Both clematis and lonicera grow fast and in that course there can be long lengths of growth void of foliage, this so often dies, especially with clematis. So your prized rose is now somewhere in that mass of birdnesting dead or dying structure. In the case of lonicera. You could end up with the whole garden wrapped up in it and just a few flowers here and there. Each to their own. I prefer to stick to the older plans.


Actually, dedicated "rose gardens" are more recent than mixing roses and other plants together.....if you go back far enough. It really wasn't until we had repeat-blooming roses that could be used for bedding that dedicated rose gardens became popular. If you grow the types of roses from before that time, they still look and do great when grown in a mixed garden, acting like the flowering shrubs they are. Gardens of this flavor have been designed and written about going back longer than you've been alive, and have continued. Gertrude Jekyll, Vita Sackville-West, etc. were gardening this way well into the 20th Century, and any "recent times" changes are really reversions to previous fashions.

:-)


I found a couple of things to keep in mind when growing roses and clematis together.

First, make sure that the ultimate size of the clematis is no more than 2/3 the size of the rose, preferably keep it at about 1/2. Since you'll be working on the rose every year in late Winter or early Spring, I'd suggest using only clematis that can be pruned back hard, since you may need to remove the parts of the rose higher up that it's using as a trellis.

If you'd rather prune clematis lightly to bloom earlier, they're better off being used BETWEEN climbing roses, and allowed to intermingle a little where they overlap. Chances are, you'd be tidying up the clematis a bit, anyway, so where it's overlapping with the rose in this case it'll probably get snipped back, anyway. Personally, I find this is an easier way to go.

I like to pair things that complement each other, and more than just in color. So if I have a climbing/rambling rose that blooms in sprays of smaller flowers, I like how that looks next to a large-flowered clematis. I like to put light colors next to dark, and to complement them. So I'd use light yellow roses against dark red clematis (such as 'Yellow Sweetheart, Climbing' rose with 'Niobe' clematis, which I loved, until the rose died after a severe Winter), light pink roses against dark purple or blue clematis, dark red roses against pale lavender or even white clematis, etc. This way, to me, each sets the other off. If you prefer tone-on-tone, to set a color palette for an area, that's something else. To me, that's a bit more difficult, since you have to be careful about cool versus hot reds against the clematis, which are mostly cool. And if you have something challenging in a hot color, just pair it with white.

:-)

~Christopher
Name: John Hunley
E. TN (Zone 7a)
Rose_Insanity
Mar 30, 2020 8:12 PM CST
The best combo I've ever grown (or indeed, ever seen) is the climber New Dawn, with clematis 'The President' scrambling through it. Now as anyone who has grown ND knows, it can be a house eater...and a human eater as well. Those thorns! But seeing the sublime contrast of ND's ethereal transparent pink with the saturated purple of The President is one of those lifetime bucket list items. But again...those thorns! To keep blood loss to a minimum I only pruned the clematis (which is a type 2 I'd normally prune twice a year) after its first flush. Then every third year in early Spring, I'd prune it nearly to the ground. That way I got one spectacular year, a slightly less dramatic year, and the third year the clematis would bloom mostly after the rose. Insert sad face here. But eventually the rose won the battle for space. There's no clematis other than possibly the montanas and their ilk that can compete long term with ND. At least not when their keeper (that being me) is the laissez faire type (which I am).
Thumb of 2020-03-31/Rose_Insanity/c7fa36

Disclaimer: this isn't my photo. Mine was MUCH more impressive, lol.

Edit: Looking back over how I phrased the description of my pruning schedule, it's confusing as to how the intensity of the flush corresponded to the pruning. The heaviest bloom, simultaneously WITH the rose, was always the second year after being pruned to the ground, then the sequence follows that. It made perfect sense when I was typing it. Honest.

[Last edited by Rose_Insanity - Mar 30, 2020 8:46 PM (+)]
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Tuscany, Italy
bart2018
Mar 31, 2020 5:23 AM CST
OMG, Rose Insanity,that combo is beautiful! Maybe it's just my climate and gardening conditions, but roses seem to just have a more "can do" attitude than clematis, lol!
Name: Arturo Tarak
Bariloche, Rio Negro, Argentin (Zone 8a)
Roses Dahlias Irises Plant Lover: Loves 'em all!
hampartsum
Mar 31, 2020 5:34 PM CST
I'm rather drawn to this thread because, in my view, some underlying options( beyond clematis pairings) are being addresed : 1.what kind of landscape is the gardener pursuing. 2 what is the purpose of growing roses, clematis, peonies or as a matter of fact anything else alongside the main theme: just roses or roses plus something else. I've been trying to answer this in my own yard. I started a rose collection some years ago ( now almost 6) and I've been expanding it ever since. My rose collection is placed mainly as solely rosebushes ( let's call it the old school). Initially they were one of their kind. Many old garden roses and of these quite a few once blooming. Ocasionally a repeat specimen. I wasn't fully convinced that this was what I was searching for landscape wise, although I was very happy with my cultural practise, learning about the requirements of each variety here in my yard, preparing for my hobby breeding. So then I moved along searching landscape aspects. These past two years, under the policy of a vendor, I've purchased in groups of five per variety. This past purchase, mainly floribundas, plus some D.Austin's. I'm only this fall discovering why some suggest grouping same varieties. Roses of exactly the same kind have a very interesting visual impact. They tend to counterbalance too much diversity. There's a fine balance between diversity and uniformity to be discovered. This said in the understanding that as the blooming season advances, one needs to counterbalance lack of blooms between flushes.
First, although my collection is about 300 varieties of roses, I consider myself a gardener, not a rosarian, although I try to become an accomplished rose gardener though. The same goes towards my irises, daylilies, dahlias, Penstemons , Lewisias etc. I find clematis irresistible... Sighing! as so many more other plants.... *Blush* So imho, my permanent question is how can I find beauty and harmony in my garden( s)...yes, more than one, whilst some are more thematic ( i.e roses) than others. The sheer ammount of plants quickly has overgrown my initial rose garden dimension, so now I have a spill over of rose bushes to place into my other gardens. This allows me to play with certain companions to my roses. The rose garden is particularly bare in spring. I have at least two solid months of spring season with no blooms, while the bushes are recovering from the winter dormancy ( in some cases) or slowdown. I need colour to cheer up the place. Here's where I planted spring bulbs, perhaps some auriculas and Primulas and very early daylilies, and some towering delphiniums. I'm even considering reticulate irises. Clematis montana blooms here before the first of my roses so it can become a herald for later rose climbers. I have had almost zero experience with any other clematis, but I do find that once understood the blooming pattern and their eventual size, they can continue to provide colour and garden worthy interest during all the growing season. I have placed my priority in the overall aspect of each of my gardens, so that they maintain high quality interest. Although I'm specially partial towards roses, I often find that for some reason or other, they need companions of some sort. For instance upright HT's that stand out like marching soldiers need something up front to soften their rigid countenance. I'm searching for other roses that have a sprawling pattern. But I also found that there are plenty of well behaved perennials that can also contribute to the overall aspect of harmony. One example is a front row of Munstead Wood dwarf lavender.
Summing up. I believe that clematis are very good companions to roses because of their complementary colours ( blues , violets, mauves, lilacs ,etc.). As Christopher explains much better, its just a question of finding the right option in one's particular yard/condition.
Arturo
Name: Teresa Cole
Bayfield, Colorado S.W. Rockie (Zone 4b)
8000 ft. Up
Image
ttkc4704
Apr 19, 2020 8:00 AM CST
ttkc4704 said:

Thanks! I will look for this book. I have a huge old rose bush ( just rose colored singles) that came with the property, and a purplish magenta German Pavement rose I planted 2 yrs ago. I love sweet Autumn Clematis but it can be rampant and heavy for climbing through roses don't you think? I like to see the roses bloom by themselves, then see the clematis at other times. The Montana might look good in the early spring. Would appreciate your examples


P.S. found your lovely book on eBay for 5$! What a deal! I have really enjoyed the practical advice it offers. Thanks
Weed= A flower yet to be appreciated

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