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Sep 1, 2012 8:32 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: Pat
Florida USA (Zone 10b)
YES!! I am open to TRADES...PLEASE
I got this several months back as a mystery cutting, it's been twining away happy as a lark, had no idea what it was and I knew I needed a flower for an ID since the leaves look like just about any other legume. Yesterday I finally found a flower, just these tiny little snail like flowers about the size of a dime. I think they only last one day and I didn't notice a perfume from them at all. Heck it was only one little flower maybe it might if it has several...I don't know I will be a patient person, there pretty anyway just the same.
Can you help me ID my new little friend? Thumb of 2012-09-02/flaflowerfloozie/613309
Thumb of 2012-09-02/flaflowerfloozie/3b082b
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Sep 1, 2012 8:47 PM CST
Name: Jay
Nederland, Texas (Zone 9a)
Region: Texas Region: Gulf Coast Charter ATP Member I helped beta test the first seed swap I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier Tip Photographer Garden Sages Garden Ideas: Master Level Hibiscus
It is genus Strophostyles either umbellata or helvola. I have never been able to determine exactly how to tell them apart visually. They are almost identical except, umbellata is perennial and helvola is an annual.

http://www.alabamaplants.com/P...
http://www.missouriplants.com/...
wildflowersoftexas.com



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Sep 1, 2012 8:51 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: Pat
Florida USA (Zone 10b)
YES!! I am open to TRADES...PLEASE
Hummm....interesting Rolling my eyes.
At this point I don't know either, will take a bit of digging to get to the bottom of this mystery.
I thank you so much you have been ever so helpful horntoad Hurray!

Wow your right they are really close with exception to the flower color they both look remerkably close.

Anyone else want to take a look and see what they think?
Visit my trades list and poke around :-)
Last edited by flaflowerfloozie Sep 1, 2012 9:02 PM Icon for preview
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Sep 1, 2012 8:56 PM CST
Name: Jay
Nederland, Texas (Zone 9a)
Region: Texas Region: Gulf Coast Charter ATP Member I helped beta test the first seed swap I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier Tip Photographer Garden Sages Garden Ideas: Master Level Hibiscus
I have been digging on this one for a while now and have not found a good answer. The only visible difference I have come-up with has to do with the subtending bract, but have not found a satisfactory explanation or diagram of the difference. Mine comes back every year but it seeds profusely, so I can't say for sure if it is perennial or an annual that is reseeding.
wildflowersoftexas.com



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Sep 1, 2012 9:22 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: Pat
Florida USA (Zone 10b)
YES!! I am open to TRADES...PLEASE
Yes I can see how that could become an issue it being a great re-seeder.

Makes it hard to figure out annual from perennial? Does yours bloom in big sprees or just here and there?
Do you notice if it is fragrant at all? Mine hates to be trained, the growth tips sometimes just shrivel up from being redirected (not pulled, pinched, or bent) just directed and right now it seems like it is growing in a hurry all of a sudden, product of heat and rain I am sure.

It even says in one of those links, the leaf difference isn't always an indicator, it can have a few different types of leaves...which doesn't help our cause any.

First thing I said was OH that's not mine look at those leaves, then as you read it says...surprise!!

"The leaves of the plant can be somewhat variable. As you may notice, the leaves in the first picture above are quite diffrent from the leaves in the second picture"

Oh thanks loads there Mr. know-it-all...LOL Just spin my dizzy and tell me I'm drunk.

Time, it's all gonna take time and maybe a cutting sent to the department of AG...LOL
Visit my trades list and poke around :-)
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Sep 1, 2012 10:04 PM CST
Name: Jay
Nederland, Texas (Zone 9a)
Region: Texas Region: Gulf Coast Charter ATP Member I helped beta test the first seed swap I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier Tip Photographer Garden Sages Garden Ideas: Master Level Hibiscus
Mine produces a few isolated flowers early in the summer, but starts blooming more profusely around August. Strophostyles leiosperma has been bloom the last month also. Strophostyles leiosperma looks identical to the other two, but much smaller, so it is easy to distinguish.
Here is a pic of S. leisosperma and my unidentified one to show the difference in size.

Thumb of 2012-09-02/Horntoad/fbf05c

The picture below is of the subtending bract I mentioned as the only way to tell umbellata and helvola apart. But I have found nothing to explain how this part is different in the two plants.

Thumb of 2012-09-02/Horntoad/e0886a
wildflowersoftexas.com



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Sep 2, 2012 5:02 AM CST
Name: Janet Super Sleuth
Near Lincoln UK
Bee Lover Plant Identifier Organic Gardener Dragonflies I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Charter ATP Member
Cat Lover Garden Photography Butterflies Birds Spiders!
Compare the bracts on the Southeastern Flora site, you can see the difference ..

http://www.southeasternflora.c...

http://www.southeasternflora.c...
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Sep 4, 2012 4:28 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: Pat
Florida USA (Zone 10b)
YES!! I am open to TRADES...PLEASE
Ok so I got impatient and decided to send my pic to any email address I could find on the Missouri website to try and get an answer...still didn't and will forward more pics to him if it ever stops raining here long enough in my effort for a real ID. The things we will do to get a name...Uggg Confused


Your message and photo made its way to me. The flowers that you show do indeed look like a species of Strophostyles. The large banner petal (the top half of the flower), the twisted keel (the central portion of the flower), and the petal color (light pink fading to light yellow) are all characteristic of the genus. The genus also has a characteristc inflorescence in which the small cluster of lfowers is at the tip of a relatively long stalk, but that can't be seen from your image. Beyond that, I would need more information or to see more of the plant. There are two (of the three) Missouri species that have flowers similar to those you show. The easiest difference between them is that Strophostyles helvula has at least some of the leaves with the pair of lateral leaflets lobed (with a pair of shallow shoulders one one side toward the base or deeper lobes), whereas S. umbellata has all of the leaflets unlobed. I was at Creve Coeur County Park last week and Strophostyles helvula is very common there this year, especially along Little Creve Coeur Lake, which is the marsh that was cut off from the rest of the park by the Page Avenue Extension.



Best Wishes,
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Sep 6, 2012 12:03 PM CST
Name: Jay
Nederland, Texas (Zone 9a)
Region: Texas Region: Gulf Coast Charter ATP Member I helped beta test the first seed swap I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier Tip Photographer Garden Sages Garden Ideas: Master Level Hibiscus
Pat, I sent an e-mail to "Mr. Smarty Plants" at Lady Bird Johnson Wildflower Center, about how to tell them apart and they answered here.

http://www.wildflower.org/expe...
wildflowersoftexas.com



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Sep 27, 2012 7:38 AM CST
Thread OP
Name: Pat
Florida USA (Zone 10b)
YES!! I am open to TRADES...PLEASE
Horntoad said:Pat, I sent an e-mail to "Mr. Smarty Plants" at Lady Bird Johnson Wildflower Center, about how to tell them apart and they answered here.

http://www.wildflower.org/expe...



I just went out and got a few ripe seed pods off the vine in case it's an annual here in our summer heat.
It flushed with huge amount of flowers, it was amazing...the butterflies just love this plant.
Thanks for the link it appears I have S. Umbellata...hooray a name

Thanks for all the help
Visit my trades list and poke around :-)
Last edited by flaflowerfloozie Sep 27, 2012 7:50 AM Icon for preview
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Sep 27, 2012 8:32 AM CST
Name: Lin Vosbury
Sebastian, Florida (Zone 10a)

Region: Ukraine Region: United States of America Bird Bath, Fountain and Waterfall Region: Florida Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Birds Butterflies Bee Lover Hummingbirder Container Gardener
We could use y'alls lovely photo's for the database. Green Grin!

http://garden.org/plants/searc...
~ I'm an old gal who still loves playing in the dirt!
~ Playing in the dirt is my therapy ... and I'm in therapy a lot!


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Sep 27, 2012 9:40 AM CST
Name: Jean
Prairieville, LA (Zone 9a)
Charter ATP Member Plant Identifier The WITWIT Badge Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Garden Sages
Boy was I off base. I thought you had a Snail Vine

http://toptropicals.com/catalo...
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Sep 27, 2012 10:41 AM CST
Garden.org Admin
Name: Dave Whitinger
Southlake, Texas (Zone 8a)
Region: Texas Seed Starter Vegetable Grower Tomato Heads Vermiculture Garden Research Contributor
Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Ideas: Master Level Region: Ukraine Garden Sages
Moonhowl said:Boy was I off base. I thought you had a Snail Vine


I agree That was my first thought when I saw the thumbnail.
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Sep 27, 2012 12:06 PM CST
Name: Jean
Prairieville, LA (Zone 9a)
Charter ATP Member Plant Identifier The WITWIT Badge Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Garden Sages
I reckon there is still lots of room for learning... nodding Now I need to go do a "Gee what's different" comparison...glad to know I was in such good company... Hilarious!
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