Orchids forum: what's going on with this plant?

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Name: lindsey
wesley chapel, fl
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
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sugarcane
Sep 3, 2012 11:10 AM CST
Thumb of 2012-09-03/sugarcane/b648ed Thumb of 2012-09-03/sugarcane/b9ecb7
This is C. lueddemaniana and it's not looking too happy at the moment. Is this a result of too much
rain? It is putting out new growth, but the other part looks highly contagious . What would you do
it this were your plant?
lindsey
Name: Ursula
Fair Lawn NJ, zone 6b
Charter ATP Member Spiders! Native Plants and Wildflowers Region: Pennsylvania Greenhouse Cactus and Succulents
Forum moderator I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Photo Contest Winner: 2014 Ponds Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Region: New Jersey
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Ursula
Sep 3, 2012 5:43 PM CST

Moderator

Oh boy! I do hope I am wrong, but unfortunately this Summer I had my share of similar problems regarding Cattleyas. I am not sure you can save any of the growths with that brownish darkish lower part. Last week I bought some Captan ( from the new Oak Hill garden) and treated some of the affected plants - after removing any dying or dead tissue.
You might want to run this past Jim or Laurel and see what they say.
Name: Elaine
South Sarasota, Florida (Zone 9b)
The one constant in life is change
Cat Lover Master Gardener: Florida Tropicals Multi-Region Gardener Vegetable Grower Region: Florida
Herbs Orchids Birds Garden Ideas: Level 2 Garden Sages Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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dyzzypyxxy
Sep 3, 2012 7:32 PM CST
Lindsay, I had a couple start to look like that after we had the drenching from Debby. I did some cutting on the soft or discolored parts, and just doused the rest including the cuts with cinnamon. Seems to have worked, they all recovered except the one little Paph. I didn't notice him in trouble until too late. One thing about cinnamon, it most likely can't hurt!

I kept all the affected ones quarantined in the shade and under the roof overhang where they couldn't get rained on any more, until there was no further sign of plague. Just misted the leaves, being careful not to wet the affected areas, or to splash any water around.

From your pics, I'd take a sharp serrated knife and cut out all those stems with the dark discolorations, then as I said, douse the whole pot with cinnamon. Until further expert help advises otherwise, that is.
Elaine

"Success is stumbling from failure to failure with no loss of enthusiasm." –Winston Churchill
Name: Kathy
Western MA

Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Dog Lover Region: Northeast US Orchids Irises
Enjoys or suffers cold winters
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boojum
Sep 3, 2012 8:20 PM CST
I have used cinnamon too. Before I started tarping, I lost 30 plants to rot the year it rained 3 times a day. Now I only let the rain hit once and in the AM.
Name: Jim Hawk
Odessa, Florida (Zone 9b)
Charter ATP Member Hibiscus Birds Bromeliad Greenhouse Master Gardener: Florida
Garden Photography Region: United States of America Roses Tropicals Region: Florida Orchids
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hawkarica
Sep 4, 2012 11:35 AM CST
I don't like the looks of that at all. I think you have a rather serious case of Phytophthora cactorum. Most cases begin on the leaf surface as black spots and move down toward the crown where they will girdle the plant and kill it. Your plant looks as if it is already near the crown so there may be little time to stop the progression. Remember that fungicides are protectants, not cures, so I agree with Elaine in that you should carefully cut and remove anything with the black fungas. I would then drench the plant with a systemic fungicide such as Subdue or Aliette. I've also had success with Bayleton. I think it is past what cinnamon can do. Above all, isolate the plant and sterilize any tool or pot that comes in contact with it.

Jim
Name: lindsey
wesley chapel, fl
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
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sugarcane
Sep 4, 2012 1:12 PM CST
Alrighty, thanks for all your suggestions! If I have trouble locating the fungicides you've suggested would the
Bayer 3 in one work in a pinch or Physan (sp?)
lindsey
Name: Ursula
Fair Lawn NJ, zone 6b
Charter ATP Member Spiders! Native Plants and Wildflowers Region: Pennsylvania Greenhouse Cactus and Succulents
Forum moderator I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Photo Contest Winner: 2014 Ponds Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Region: New Jersey
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Ursula
Sep 4, 2012 1:16 PM CST

Moderator

The Bayer 3 in 1 did not prevent it for me.
Name: Jim Hawk
Odessa, Florida (Zone 9b)
Charter ATP Member Hibiscus Birds Bromeliad Greenhouse Master Gardener: Florida
Garden Photography Region: United States of America Roses Tropicals Region: Florida Orchids
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hawkarica
Sep 4, 2012 1:49 PM CST
If you go to a good nursery, you should be able to find these fungicides. They are not rare.

Jim
Name: Kathy
Western MA

Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Dog Lover Region: Northeast US Orchids Irises
Enjoys or suffers cold winters
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boojum
Sep 4, 2012 3:49 PM CST
Physan helps prevent this but does no good at this stage.
Name: Ursula
Fair Lawn NJ, zone 6b
Charter ATP Member Spiders! Native Plants and Wildflowers Region: Pennsylvania Greenhouse Cactus and Succulents
Forum moderator I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Photo Contest Winner: 2014 Ponds Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Region: New Jersey
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Ursula
Sep 4, 2012 5:52 PM CST

Moderator

Kathy, do you treat all your plants with Physan? And if so, what dosage?
Name: Elaine
South Sarasota, Florida (Zone 9b)
The one constant in life is change
Cat Lover Master Gardener: Florida Tropicals Multi-Region Gardener Vegetable Grower Region: Florida
Herbs Orchids Birds Garden Ideas: Level 2 Garden Sages Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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dyzzypyxxy
Sep 4, 2012 6:57 PM CST
Lindsay, it sounds to me like the only thing that stops the spread of the disease once it's got a hold is removing every bit of affected tissue you can, then keeping the areas where it was dry, dry, dry after that.Systemics will help keep the healthy tissue from infection, but won't cure it once it's going. I'm thinking the cinnamon treatment worked for me because it's applied dry. The others are all either sprayed or doused on with water and any more water was the last thing I wanted to put on my sickly plants.

Just a thought, since there's no sign of black spots on the leaves, and there is healthy looking new growth, what about re-potting? Getting rid of as much diseased tissue as possible must be a good thing, right? Take it 'way down the far end of your garden (downwind of any other orchids, preferably) and removing the plant from the pot, you might spot any more blackened areas such as roots, and be able to excise them, too. Get rid of the old medium that could be holding spores of the fungus - put all the diseased plant stuff and medium in a sealed plastic bag in the trash. Douse the naked plant with whichever fungicide you get, then dust every part of the lower portion of the plant especially the cuts with cinnamon, and re-pot with new (dry?) medium and a sterile pot. Then let it dry out for a week, maybe?

What do you think, experts?? Is drastic action justified here?
Elaine

"Success is stumbling from failure to failure with no loss of enthusiasm." –Winston Churchill
Name: Jim Hawk
Odessa, Florida (Zone 9b)
Charter ATP Member Hibiscus Birds Bromeliad Greenhouse Master Gardener: Florida
Garden Photography Region: United States of America Roses Tropicals Region: Florida Orchids
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hawkarica
Sep 4, 2012 8:01 PM CST
To tell you the truth, I think it is all over for this plant. I can hear the fat lady singing from here.

Jim
Name: Ursula
Fair Lawn NJ, zone 6b
Charter ATP Member Spiders! Native Plants and Wildflowers Region: Pennsylvania Greenhouse Cactus and Succulents
Forum moderator I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Photo Contest Winner: 2014 Ponds Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Region: New Jersey
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Ursula
Sep 4, 2012 8:12 PM CST

Moderator

la la la .... most likely.
Name: Elaine
South Sarasota, Florida (Zone 9b)
The one constant in life is change
Cat Lover Master Gardener: Florida Tropicals Multi-Region Gardener Vegetable Grower Region: Florida
Herbs Orchids Birds Garden Ideas: Level 2 Garden Sages Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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dyzzypyxxy
Sep 5, 2012 8:08 AM CST
Well, no harm in experimenting on it then. I do love experimenting . .
Elaine

"Success is stumbling from failure to failure with no loss of enthusiasm." –Winston Churchill
Name: lindsey
wesley chapel, fl
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
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sugarcane
Sep 5, 2012 2:05 PM CST
Thanks guys...I suspect I will have some other losses as summer camp for the Catts. is perhaps
a little on the crowded side.
Thumb of 2012-09-05/sugarcane/6e2f91
I will perform surgery just for kicks and take the list of fungicides to the store in town that sells exotic
chemicals...maybe I'll get lucky.
lindsey
Name: Elaine
South Sarasota, Florida (Zone 9b)
The one constant in life is change
Cat Lover Master Gardener: Florida Tropicals Multi-Region Gardener Vegetable Grower Region: Florida
Herbs Orchids Birds Garden Ideas: Level 2 Garden Sages Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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dyzzypyxxy
Sep 5, 2012 3:06 PM CST
Wow, ya think?? That's a herd of Catts you've got snuggled together there!

I get anxious when any of mine are close enough to even touch their leaves. But then I'm a relatively new orchid mother and don't have half as many as you do.

I'd go for a pound of cinnamon powder at the bulk foods store, too, Lindsay!
Elaine

"Success is stumbling from failure to failure with no loss of enthusiasm." –Winston Churchill
Name: lindsey
wesley chapel, fl
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
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sugarcane
Sep 6, 2012 12:39 PM CST
Rolling on the floor laughing
a pound? that's it? probably need a barrow full!
lindsey
Name: lindsey
wesley chapel, fl
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
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sugarcane
Sep 6, 2012 1:31 PM CST
Thumb of 2012-09-06/sugarcane/6f0ce9
Ok , I performed surgery today. It ended up being
4 pieces each with a new growth and the old growth
immediately preceding that. I think 2 of the pieces had
2 old p.bulbs. I used a mix with a little less bark and more
aliflore , charcoal and perlite hoping for faster drainage.
I used A TON of cinnamon and some fungicide that Jim
had suggested. I used a brand new pot.
should I throw the old clay pot out or can it be sanitized?
lindsey
Name: Elaine
South Sarasota, Florida (Zone 9b)
The one constant in life is change
Cat Lover Master Gardener: Florida Tropicals Multi-Region Gardener Vegetable Grower Region: Florida
Herbs Orchids Birds Garden Ideas: Level 2 Garden Sages Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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dyzzypyxxy
Sep 6, 2012 2:23 PM CST
I think you can sanitize it, Lindsay. Scrub with soap and a little bleach - I use Clorox Clean-up bathroom cleaner. Then set it out where it will bake in the sun. Sunlight is death to fungus, generally. Don't use it again until it is thoroughly dry and baked - at least a week of sunshine, I'd think.

I"m betting you'll save that plant, just keep it dry for at least a few days. Mist the leaves only. Keep it away from the others for a few weeks until you're absolutely sure the plague is gone.

Let us know how it goes, ok? Have you done an inventory on the rest of your Catt herd? As you said, this may have only been a test run.
Elaine

"Success is stumbling from failure to failure with no loss of enthusiasm." –Winston Churchill
Name: Jim Hawk
Odessa, Florida (Zone 9b)
Charter ATP Member Hibiscus Birds Bromeliad Greenhouse Master Gardener: Florida
Garden Photography Region: United States of America Roses Tropicals Region: Florida Orchids
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hawkarica
Sep 6, 2012 3:01 PM CST
You are doing everything you can, Lindsey. Good luck. Yes, you can sanitize the pot with bleach. I just make a heavy bleach solution in the sink and set the pot down in it. Leave it for an hour or so.

Jim

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