Roses forum→Drooping Iceberg Roses During Daytime Only? Help!

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California
SolisGardenWife
May 1, 2020 4:31 PM CST
Hello!
I recently purchased and planted 2 iceberg rose bushes in my front garden. The first day they looked great but the next the roses and new buds began drooping. The stalks look strong, leaves are green and I gave them a good watering when planted but they are drooping pretty badly!

I know that plants can go through transplanting shock so I know that may be a cause, BUT I noticed when I checked them in the morning there was no drooping....Only during the afternoon!

It's quite hot during the day so I'm assuming that may be the case, but could there be another reason for this? (If the heat is the cause of them drooping would it be a bad case of overwatering to water them twice a day? )

Please Help! I just want to make sure I'm not doing anything wrong or run the risk of the bushes dying!!
Name: one-eye-luke US.Vet.
Texas (Zone 8a)
Quitter's never Win
Hummingbirder Birds Organic Gardener Dog Lover Cat Lover
oneeyeluke
May 2, 2020 3:18 AM CST
You may have planted them too deep. Post a photo to be sure. Dig out beside the plant and feel deep in the soil about a foot and feel with your fingers. If the soil is dry, then stick the hose in hole you dug and flood the ground. However If the soil is sopping wet a foot below the ground then it's over watering and let the soil dry.
NOT A EXPERT! Just a grow worm! I never met a plant I didn’t love.✌
Milpitas, CA
SoulReaver009
May 2, 2020 3:07 PM CST
Could be combination of both.
Transplant shock and heat.

I didn't know they did that until recently, myself.

The afternoon wilt is most likely because they are hot!

Just make sure to water them accordingly. Adjusting to heat and cold, and size of bush. Sometimes I water my roses twice a week, and sometimes once a week.

And know that it will happen on "hotter than normal" days.
California
SolisGardenWife
May 2, 2020 3:43 PM CST
Thank you @oneeyeluke !
I checked the soil like you said and it's definitely wet. I'll hold off on heavy watering and let it dry out a bit. thanks for the tip! I most likely would have kept heavy watering and for sure would have a second problem.

I did check on my flowers in the evening around 10:00pm when it was dark/cool and they looked vibrant upright and happy so I'm pretty sure it's a case of heat. So I feel like your right @SoulReaver009. I'm thinking about getting a little shade screen to cover them on hotter days. Lastly, I read somewhere that giving them a very light overhead bath can help prevent over-exhaustion, so I have it a try and I think doing that helped a bit as well 👍🏽

Thank you both so much! It really helped ease my heart 🙏🏾🙏🏾

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Name: Luis
Hurst, TX, U.S.A. (Zone 8a)
Dog Lover Region: Texas Salvias Roses Hibiscus Plumerias
luis_pr
May 2, 2020 4:00 PM CST
I have not read about this over-exhaustion thing but be careful. Getting the leaves wet and keeping the leaves for a long enough period can promote black spot.
Milpitas, CA
SoulReaver009
May 2, 2020 4:50 PM CST
Do not do that with rose bushes!

I did that and got mildew.

It ruined a couple rose bushes this season. Plus, rose leaves have a very waxy coating that doesn't allow water to permeate through their leaves.

Tomato plants can absorb slight amounts of water through their leaves, and others that have those same kind of leaves. But not rose leaves.

Especially don't do it at night!
I water my rose bushes twice a week with 1/2 to 1 gallon of water depending on rose bush roots size, when it's hot. 80+ with clear skies, for 3-4 days straight. I also built a moat around the base of the plant to prevent water from running off the surface away from the bush roots.

Otherwise, same amount but just once a week. And sometimes in between.
California
SolisGardenWife
May 2, 2020 5:09 PM CST
@soulreaver009 and @luis_pr

Okay thank you! I'll hold off on overhead watering.

Since they are newly planted, should I still be lightly watering them everyday to keep the topsoil moist?

I haven't had a chance to pick up rose mulch to help retain some of the moisture , but as mentioned, the deep soil is definitely wet, so I don't want to overwater and flood the bed.

But the top definitely gets dried out during the heat of the day because it's been 80+ for the last two weeks.
Milpitas, CA
SoulReaver009
May 2, 2020 5:39 PM CST
Depends how big they are.

Please post a pic.

I have my sprouts, I water them lightly everyday. I use 1/2 to full spray of water from a spray bottle. I do this at daybreak, and let it dry out for the rest of the day.

My established rose bushes get more water, less frequently.
Name: Lyn
Weaverville, California (Zone 8a)
Garden Ideas: Level 1 Garden Sages Celebrating Gardening: 2015
Image
RoseBlush1
May 2, 2020 6:20 PM CST
@SolisGardenWife ....

Welcome to NGA ... Smiling

Your wilting roses are not in trouble. Newly planted or newly transplanted roses need time to get established. By that, I mean that there is no way you can plant a rose without damaging the root system. Therefore, the root system is usually inefficient until the rose grows new roots.

Roses grow their roots first, so they will put most of their plant energy into root growth. The existing roots cannot transport enough moisture to the top growth. You should be watering your roses daily until you see new top growth because they do not have a fully developed root system.

You should continue the daily watering until you see new top growth. That growth tells you the rose has grown enough roots to support new growth and is ready to grow. Then you can water your roses once or twice a week, depending on your climate and soil.

You want to train the anchor roots to go down deep because these roots also perform a major function of pumping up moisture to the top growth. The way you train them, is to give your roses deep waterings at least once a week. The roots will follow the water.

You cannot over water a rose that has good drainage.

If you live in a part of California where you have high summer temps during the day, but nights cool off, you may see the wilting behavior for two or three years. A rose is considered to be a juvenile plant until it is about three years old. It varies because everything always depends on the rose .. Smiling

The roses wilt because the transpiration rate .. loss of moisture through the leaves ... is higher than the plant can send moisture up to the top growth. With the cooler temps at night, the rose has a chance to rehydrate.

@luis_pr .... wetting the leaves of a rose does not always promote black spot. It depends on your climate. If you are gardening in a dry climate, washing down the rose during the hottest part of the day is quite beneficial to the rose. Roses do absorb moisture through their leaves. Also, this practice inhibits spider mite infestations.

If you live in a more humid climate, you are wise not to use overhead watering. If the foliage has time to dry off within six hours, overhead watering should not be a problem.

@SolisGardenWife ... you said the soil was definitely wet ... Did you perk test your rose holes before planting ? Good drainage is a MUST for all roses .. except for the Swamp Rose. If your soil stays too wet, the roots will rot.

I hope this info helps.
I'd rather weed than dust ... the weeds stay gone longer.
California
SolisGardenWife
May 2, 2020 9:38 PM CST
@roseblush1...
Thank you so much for all the information! I always love learning more so that is most appreciated!

I did not do a perk test but I do believe it drains well. Is there another way to test soil-drainage?
Name: Luis
Hurst, TX, U.S.A. (Zone 8a)
Dog Lover Region: Texas Salvias Roses Hibiscus Plumerias
luis_pr
May 3, 2020 1:13 AM CST
This is what I did a long time ago to test for good soil drainage, SolisGardenWife:

https://www.doityourself.com/s...

Roseblush1, I would still say do not tempt fate as Iceberg is prone to black spot. If it was resistant then it would be ok. Mind you, it is a great plant and I am on my second one!!! Both are climbers and very nice when in bloom or when they leaf out (nice green leaves). Looks great growing attached to a wall. Mine are on a southern exposure so they get a lot of sun, air circulation and drip irrigation. They bloom "almost" all the time for me and typically do not have "too many" thorns. You can train a second (different color) rose climber nearby and let them mix a little (but not too much due to black spot) or be close to each other (I try to keep them away from each other by one foot more than the rose's estimated mature width in the plant label).. I did that several decades ago with Iceberg and ZF (Zéphirine Drouhin) climbers and they looked great!

Enjoy your plant, SolisGardenWife!
[Last edited by luis_pr - May 3, 2020 3:56 AM (+)]
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Name: Lyn
Weaverville, California (Zone 8a)
Garden Ideas: Level 1 Garden Sages Celebrating Gardening: 2015
Image
RoseBlush1
May 3, 2020 7:16 PM CST
@SolisGardenWife ....

I can't begin to tell you how to check for drainage after a rose has been planted as I have only gardened where I have good drainage.

I did perk test my rose holes before planting. The link Luis provided gives an excellent description of perk testing a planting hole.

Someone else may be able to provide that information for you.

I can tell you that if the rose is unhappy with it's drainage, it will let you know by its performance ... Smiling

@luis_pr ... yes, 'Iceberg' is prone to bs, but often its susceptibility to bs is increased by how the rose is pruned.

Here is an article written by one of the most knowledgeable rosarians I know.

https://www.helpmefind.com/gar...

Kim has more hands on experience with thousands of cultivars and has a depth of knowledge much greater than most of us. When he wrote this article, he was living in southern California and had gardened or worked in gardens ranging from coastal gardens to high desert gardens,

The information about how pruning 'Iceberg' can impact its disease resistance can be found near the end of the article.
I'd rather weed than dust ... the weeds stay gone longer.
Name: Luis
Hurst, TX, U.S.A. (Zone 8a)
Dog Lover Region: Texas Salvias Roses Hibiscus Plumerias
luis_pr
May 4, 2020 12:17 AM CST
Thanks for the link. Is this the same Kim that is a breeder of roses?
Name: Lyn
Weaverville, California (Zone 8a)
Garden Ideas: Level 1 Garden Sages Celebrating Gardening: 2015
Image
RoseBlush1
May 4, 2020 2:05 AM CST
Luis ... yes it is. My guess is that you will enjoy all of the Ezine articles by Kim that have been posted on HMF.

Here is a link:

https://www.helpmefind.com/gar...

If you need a link to his blog, just send me a t-mail.
I'd rather weed than dust ... the weeds stay gone longer.
Name: Luis
Hurst, TX, U.S.A. (Zone 8a)
Dog Lover Region: Texas Salvias Roses Hibiscus Plumerias
luis_pr
May 4, 2020 4:29 AM CST
Yes, send me his blog's link. I used to like reading Paul Barden's blog eons ago but he stopped and forgot it until you mentioned "blogs" again.
Tuscany, Italy
bart2018
May 4, 2020 5:04 AM CST
It would probably help the plants along if you remove the flowers and keep on de-budding them for a while. Flowering takes a LOT of energy from a plant,so it's asking an awful lot of a newly transplanted rose to flower. You want them to be able to concentrate themselves on getting established and working on their roots.
Name: Lyn
Weaverville, California (Zone 8a)
Garden Ideas: Level 1 Garden Sages Celebrating Gardening: 2015
Image
RoseBlush1
May 4, 2020 9:54 AM CST
luis_pr said:Yes, send me his blog's link. I used to like reading Paul Barden's blog eons ago but he stopped and forgot it until you mentioned "blogs" again.


@Luis ...

Links have been sent ... including a link to Paul's archived website.

I'd rather weed than dust ... the weeds stay gone longer.
California
SolisGardenWife
May 4, 2020 10:37 AM CST
@roseblush1, @Luis_pr @bart2018
Thank you for all the information!

And @roseblush1... yes! That was the first article a read when I purchased the iceberg roses to learn a bit more about them. I'm glad to know it was a credible source!

@bart2018 I am open to removing the blooms and de-budding the bush.

Thank you again everyone!! Much appreciated.
[Last edited by SolisGardenWife - May 5, 2020 7:43 AM (+)]
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