Daylilies forum: The mysterious contents of my mixed pot

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Name: Ken
Winston-Salem, NC (Zone 7b)
Daylilies & hardy hibiscus
Image
MrKGDickie
May 9, 2020 10:34 PM CST
So...today I split up a mixed pot. The pot itself was shattered and cracked, and from photos and plant tags, I know it contained at least 3 cultivars: 'Frans Hals', 'Treasure Room', and "Seaside Scallop". That last was apparently not registered; it was from the now-defunct Seaside Daylilies on Martha's Vineyard.

What I found was one tall, distinctly separate fan, a clump with three scapes and similar foliage, and another clump. Now, "SS" is an EM bloomer, but 'FH' and 'TR' are both M-L bloomers. I'm guessing the clump with the scapes is "SS", which would make the single fan 'TR'.

That leaves the clump, which seems healthy bordering on aggressive, but somehow just...off. First of all, there are what look like three different kinds of foliage: short and wide, mid-height and wiry, and tall and wider. SOME of the clump seems to be spreading by rhizomes or stolons (see first pic), although I can't tell which parts.

Now...I wonder if someone else who grown 'Frans Hals' can shed some light. Is this what you see below ground with your Frans Hals? It seems pretty aggressive. Of course, this could well be multiple cultivars mixed together, which is likely given the crazily varying foliage heights and widths.

Is it normal to have mixed height fans like this in a clump, a couple of months into growing? Does Frans Hals spread like this? Or is there maybe some H. fulva mixed in? If so, which foliage goes with which plant? I hope someone can make sense of my babbling and share their knowledge!

Thumb of 2020-05-10/MrKGDickie/7590ac
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Hardy hibiscus are a hobby, but daylilies are an obsession.
Name: Sue
Ontario, Canada (Zone 4a)
Daylilies Birds Enjoys or suffers cold winters Native Plants and Wildflowers Butterflies Annuals
Region: Canadian Keeps Horses Dog Lover Plant Identifier Garden Sages
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sooby
May 10, 2020 6:04 AM CST
It looks to me as though you have some spring sickness, especially in photo 2, which would account for shorter growth. Fans with spring sickness are stunted to varying degrees depending on the severity. They can recover and even flower, but some take longer to get going and a minority don't make it.

FWIW you also have leafminer but perhaps you already knew that.

By the way, daylilies have rhizomes (underground stems) and not stolons (above ground).
Name: Larry
Enterprise, Al. 36330 (Zone 8b)
Composter Daylilies Garden Photography Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Identifier
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Region: Alabama
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Seedfork
May 10, 2020 6:33 AM CST
Maybe most daylilies do not have stolons, but I thought the term on the AHS site..."Stoloniferous" referred to the few daylilies that do have stolons, and I have always thought they grew underground. I know I have had a few daylilies that would send out a long underground "roots" /"stolons" and a new plant would develop several inches away and I always thought they were "stolons" and not "roots'. I found several articles on HEMEROCALLIS FULVA which said it spread by underground stolons.
Name: Sue
Ontario, Canada (Zone 4a)
Daylilies Birds Enjoys or suffers cold winters Native Plants and Wildflowers Butterflies Annuals
Region: Canadian Keeps Horses Dog Lover Plant Identifier Garden Sages
Image
sooby
May 10, 2020 8:41 AM CST
Some people do use the terms interchangeably but it's not correct. Can you tell me where on the AHS site it says daylilies are stoloniferous? I know the term is in the Daylily Dictionary (probably shouldn't be, at least without clarification that it doesn't apply to daylilies) but if you look under rhizome/rhizomatous in the AHS dictionary instead you'll see Hemerocallis fulva 'Europa' as an example.

https://daylilies.org/daylily-...

Here's an illustration of the difference from Botany for Gardeners by Brian Capon:

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Name: Ken
Winston-Salem, NC (Zone 7b)
Daylilies & hardy hibiscus
Image
MrKGDickie
May 10, 2020 8:46 AM CST
(Duplicate post, sorry!)
Hardy hibiscus are a hobby, but daylilies are an obsession.
[Last edited by MrKGDickie - May 10, 2020 8:56 AM (+)]
Give a thumbs up | Quote | Post #2234056 (5)
Name: Ken
Winston-Salem, NC (Zone 7b)
Daylilies & hardy hibiscus
Image
MrKGDickie
May 10, 2020 8:55 AM CST
sooby said:It looks to me as though you have some spring sickness, especially in photo 2, which would account for shorter growth. Fans with spring sickness are stunted to varying degrees depending on the severity. They can recover and even flower, but some take longer to get going and a minority don't make it.

FWIW you also have leafminer but perhaps you already knew that.


The vast majority of my daylily fans look that way this year. They were all growing very well...and very early...and then we had multiple nights in the very low 20°s in mid-Feb, I believe. After that, they started looking like this.

They are growing out of it, and at least the one in pic #2 has scapes.

Didn't know about leaf miner. Kinda least of my worries right now, unless it poses a risk to the survival of the plants. Thanks for the heads-up, though!
Hardy hibiscus are a hobby, but daylilies are an obsession.
Name: Larry
Enterprise, Al. 36330 (Zone 8b)
Composter Daylilies Garden Photography Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Identifier
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Region: Alabama
Image
Seedfork
May 10, 2020 9:47 AM CST
@sooby
So many sources misleading all of us: So it is easy to see why many of use thought it applied to daylilies.
One example:
http://nursery-crop-extension....
Example of some others here on the forum being mislead by the term being in the dictionary with out stating it does not apply to daylilies.
The thread "Rhizomatous daylilies?" in Daylilies forum
The post by Elizabet.

I think it would be good to put at a minimum that Stoloniferous and Stolon do not apply to the runners on daylilies.
The web is full of articles misleading all of us with those terms being applied to daylilies.
Name: Valerie
Ontario, Canada (Zone 4a)
Daylilies Irises Roses Peonies Butterflies Birds
Bee Lover Region: Canadian Ponds Garden Art Dog Lover Enjoys or suffers cold winters
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touchofsky
May 10, 2020 11:59 AM CST
Ken,
I would remove that leaf with the miner and destroy it, don't compost it. Best not to get it started in your garden if you can help it Crossing Fingers!
Touch_of_sky on the LA
Name: Ken
Winston-Salem, NC (Zone 7b)
Daylilies & hardy hibiscus
Image
MrKGDickie
May 10, 2020 3:23 PM CST
touchofsky said:Ken,
I would remove that leaf with the miner and destroy it, don't compost it. Best not to get it started in your garden if you can help it Crossing Fingers!


I would, but I don't know which leaf you mean.

Edited to correct: it looked like multiple leaves. Cut off, put in plastic grocery sack & tied it off, and tossed in trash cart.

And again to add: the fans were really piled on top of each other. I don't know if you can see leaf-miners, but I did see what looked like little white aphids. I sprayed the crap out of the bases of the crowns with Neem Oil. I'll hit it with my Dawn water spray bottle on my rounds, too.
Hardy hibiscus are a hobby, but daylilies are an obsession.
[Last edited by MrKGDickie - May 10, 2020 3:41 PM (+)]
Give a thumbs up | Quote | Post #2234416 (9)
Name: Ken
Winston-Salem, NC (Zone 7b)
Daylilies & hardy hibiscus
Image
MrKGDickie
May 10, 2020 3:46 PM CST
P.S. It turns out the daylily with the dark green foliage and 3 scapes (and possible spring sickness) is 'Treasure Room'. I found another pot of "Seaside Scallop" that looks EXACTLY like the single, tall fan I separated out of that overcrowded pot.

So...plant tags have been switched. We'll see what we see when the one plant blooms and IF the others bloom.
Hardy hibiscus are a hobby, but daylilies are an obsession.
Name: Valerie
Ontario, Canada (Zone 4a)
Daylilies Irises Roses Peonies Butterflies Birds
Bee Lover Region: Canadian Ponds Garden Art Dog Lover Enjoys or suffers cold winters
Image
touchofsky
May 10, 2020 4:18 PM CST
MrKGDickie said:So...today I split up a mixed pot. The pot itself was shattered and cracked, and from photos and plant tags, I know it contained at least 3 cultivars: 'Frans Hals', 'Treasure Room', and "Seaside Scallop". That last was apparently not registered; it was from the now-defunct Seaside Daylilies on Martha's Vineyard.

What I found was one tall, distinctly separate fan, a clump with three scapes and similar foliage, and another clump. Now, "SS" is an EM bloomer, but 'FH' and 'TR' are both M-L bloomers. I'm guessing the clump with the scapes is "SS", which would make the single fan 'TR'.

That leaves the clump, which seems healthy bordering on aggressive, but somehow just...off. First of all, there are what look like three different kinds of foliage: short and wide, mid-height and wiry, and tall and wider. SOME of the clump seems to be spreading by rhizomes or stolons (see first pic), although I can't tell which parts.

Now...I wonder if someone else who grown 'Frans Hals' can shed some light. Is this what you see below ground with your Frans Hals? It seems pretty aggressive. Of course, this could well be multiple cultivars mixed together, which is likely given the crazily varying foliage heights and widths.

Is it normal to have mixed height fans like this in a clump, a couple of months into growing? Does Frans Hals spread like this? Or is there maybe some H. fulva mixed in? If so, which foliage goes with which plant? I hope someone can make sense of my babbling and share their knowledge!

Thumb of 2020-05-10/MrKGDickie/7590ac
Thumb of 2020-05-10/MrKGDickie/cf8509
Thumb of 2020-05-10/MrKGDickie/7f567f
Thumb of 2020-05-10/MrKGDickie/92aa11


In the third picture, the leaf in the front has leafminer trails in it. You can see them in the picture.

Here is a link
https://www.daylilies.org/ahs_...
And a thread on this forum
The thread "Daylily Leafminers" in Daylilies forum
Touch_of_sky on the LA

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