Roses forum→Marchesa Boccella??? Jacques Cartier???

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Name: Seth n Sam .....
W.V. (Zone 6a)
Image
Weluvroses
May 10, 2020 8:35 PM CST
Ok rose know it alls.... I need some help. @mustbnuts told me about Marchesa Boccella. I was reading up on it. And I'm ordering it from Burlington. Well as I was researching it, and reading about it. I found that it is also called Jacques Cartier. And Burlington offers both roses. If they are the same rose. How can it be offered as different varieties? I've found two places that carry both roses.
Name: Arturo Tarak
Bariloche, Rio Negro, Argentin (Zone 8a)
Roses Dahlias Irises Plant Lover: Loves 'em all!
hampartsum
May 11, 2020 8:05 AM CST
Seth
With old roses, arriving something definitive takes more time than usually expected. Not everyone agrees that Marchesa Boccella is actually the same rose as Jacques Cartier. Old roses come from differing provenances. In those cases, same-named roses may or will perform differently. Even registered cultivars like DAustins perform differently depending on location.Contradicting and confusing literature is one of the most frequent findings when studying and reading about roses. So, what to do?. Well imho is just to try both. With your ammount of available room in the vast space views of your farm, you'll surely find room for both and discover their intrinsic beauty.
While I was purchasing roses for my rose garden,I've been faced with many of these type contradictions. I arrived to a rather simplistic solution: TIO ( try it out). Just like you I don't have space restrictions. The only restrictions are availability ( specially here but sometimes up there too) and budgetary. The latter are handled on a multi year budget scheme.
Would I try to get Jacques Cartier Climbing? it's a sport of the bushy Jacques Cartier. It is a found rose 2008 in Belgium. So I would get it without doubt. If it grows like mustbnuts experienced .... then it would be placed next to an arbor/pergola or along a fence railing instead of a rose bed. I have to see whether its available here. Both names are found in growers lists here. I only have MB growing in my yard. Its bushy and well behaved.
In HMF I read comments about this same issue with growers in Europe contending that they are different. In that site a comment mentions saying that there were registered 4 differing JC and one MB in J Gravereux' Roseraie de l'Haÿ ! . There's a thread about these two (2013) for those intrigued:
https://www.helpmefind.com/ros...
How far does it matter?. imo not too much... Smiling ..Grow it/them and enjoy it/them. Perhaps it's in your path to distinguish them Hilarious! ...then I tip my hat to you. for you... nodding
Arturo
Name: Seth n Sam .....
W.V. (Zone 6a)
Image
Weluvroses
May 11, 2020 10:31 AM CST
hampartsum said:Seth
With old roses, arriving something definitive takes more time than usually expected. Not everyone agrees that Marchesa Boccella is actually the same rose as Jacques Cartier. Old roses come from differing provenances. In those cases, same-named roses may or will perform differently. Even registered cultivars like DAustins perform differently depending on location.Contradicting and confusing literature is one of the most frequent findings when studying and reading about roses. So, what to do?. Well imho is just to try both. With your ammount of available room in the vast space views of your farm, you'll surely find room for both and discover their intrinsic beauty.
While I was purchasing roses for my rose garden,I've been faced with many of these type contradictions. I arrived to a rather simplistic solution: TIO ( try it out). Just like you I don't have space restrictions. The only restrictions are availability ( specially here but sometimes up there too) and budgetary. The latter are handled on a multi year budget scheme.
Would I try to get Jacques Cartier Climbing? it's a sport of the bushy Jacques Cartier. It is a found rose 2008 in Belgium. So I would get it without doubt. If it grows like mustbnuts experienced .... then it would be placed next to an arbor/pergola or along a fence railing instead of a rose bed. I have to see whether its available here. Both names are found in growers lists here. I only have MB growing in my yard. Its bushy and well behaved.
In HMF I read comments about this same issue with growers in Europe contending that they are different. In that site a comment mentions saying that there were registered 4 differing JC and one MB in J Gravereux' Roseraie de l'Haÿ ! . There's a thread about these two (2013) for those intrigued:
https://www.helpmefind.com/ros...
How far does it matter?. imo not too much... Smiling ..Grow it/them and enjoy it/them. Perhaps it's in your path to distinguish them Hilarious! ...then I tip my hat to you. for you... nodding
Arturo


Yeah both is where I'm gonna end up. But I'm ordering M.B. first from Burlington. They emailed me back last night. Said they would email today with my total. So I can pay. I'm hoping I get the same variety @mustbnuts got. I need something that throws long giant canes
Zone 9, Sunset Zone 9 (Zone 9b)
Roses
Image
Mustbnuts
May 12, 2020 8:34 AM CST
So Burling grows the "climbing Jacques"? I may have gotten that one instead of the MB that I ordered. MB was anything but orderly and small. I would get both. Especially since you have the space. Go for it!!!!
Name: Seth n Sam .....
W.V. (Zone 6a)
Image
Weluvroses
May 12, 2020 9:37 AM CST
Mustbnuts said:So Burling grows the "climbing Jacques"? I may have gotten that one instead of the MB that I ordered. MB was anything but orderly and small. I would get both. Especially since you have the space. Go for it!!!!


Idk if JC is a climber. It's not listed as so.
Name: SoCal
Orange County (Zone 10a)
Lazy Gardener or Melonator
Image
SoCalGardenNut
May 12, 2020 12:48 PM CST
My MB is very small, stay compact, but I ordered mine from ARE. This is mine from the link.



2022 wishlist: Pastelorama, Pastelegance, and Blonde Vision.
[Last edited by SoCalGardenNut - May 12, 2020 12:50 PM (+)]
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Name: Seth n Sam .....
W.V. (Zone 6a)
Image
Weluvroses
May 13, 2020 8:24 PM CST
SoCalGardenNut said:My MB is very small, stay compact, but I ordered mine from ARE. This is mine from the link.





Beautiful.... does she have a strong fragrance?
Name: Arturo Tarak
Bariloche, Rio Negro, Argentin (Zone 8a)
Roses Dahlias Irises Plant Lover: Loves 'em all!
hampartsum
May 14, 2020 4:43 AM CST
Seth, mine has strongly fragrant flowers if I stick my nose inside. Not all of my fragrant roses generate a waft around them. I dunno why...Mine is a medium sized bush, still too young in my yard. I do expect that things will improve in time. In my view , it is a front of the bed rose, both so that I can stick my nose into it every time I pass...and thank her for its fragrance and bloom beauty. It is a well shaped rose naturally, requiring just a bit of tidying up, not much more than that.
Arturo
Name: SoCal
Orange County (Zone 10a)
Lazy Gardener or Melonator
Image
SoCalGardenNut
May 14, 2020 8:23 AM CST
Weluvroses said:

Beautiful.... does she have a strong fragrance?


Sorry, I will let you know, right now it has buds.
2022 wishlist: Pastelorama, Pastelegance, and Blonde Vision.

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