Sempervivum forum→Merits of the following sempervivum?

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Name: Julia
Washington State (Zone 7a)
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springcolor
May 16, 2020 1:09 PM CST
I have the following varieties of sempervivum; Tenderheid, Bernstein, Lenteson, Lennik's Glory and Gelber Stern. As per Sol's observation I'm adding Unicorn, Alchemist and Lady Astrid. They all look similar and each one has the long stolens. Anyone else have these? What ones shall I pitch or keep?
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Tederheid

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Bernstein

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Lentezon

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Lennik's Glory

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Gelber Stern
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[Last edited by springcolor - May 16, 2020 5:05 PM (+)]
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Name: Lynn
Oregon City, OR (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Garden Sages I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Database Moderator
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valleylynn
May 16, 2020 1:37 PM CST

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For me, I prefer the 'Bernstein' as it seems to have the most depth to the color, at least in my growing conditions. 'Gelber Stern' has very nice coloring when given enough sun.
Both 'Tederheid' and 'Lentezon' also have their time to shine.
I find that your list of semps you posted above all look to similar. That is why I have narrowed some of them out of my collection. Not enough rooms to keep them all, so narrow it down to which one gets my eye the most.

This is what concerns me about 'Lennik's Glory'. http://sempervivum-liste.de/ku...

I see they are working at sorting this out. Hurray!
Way to go sempervivum-liste.de
Name: Julia
Washington State (Zone 7a)
Photo Contest Winner 2018 Garden Photography Region: Pacific Northwest Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Forum moderator Plant Database Moderator
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springcolor
May 16, 2020 1:40 PM CST
Thank you for that info! That one is gone.
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Name: Sol Zimmerdahl
Portland, Oregon (Zone 8b)
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GeologicalForms
May 16, 2020 1:52 PM CST
Julia,
I have 'Tederheid', 'Bernstein' 'Lentezon', as well as the other somewhat similar cultivars 'Lady Astrid' and 'Alchemist'. The later two are more recent acquisitions that I don't feel I can really comment on yet. The other three I have opinions on.
True they're all look-a-likes, and all have low fertility but it seems 'Tederheid' produces more seed than 'Bernstein' which produces more seed than 'Lentezon'. Tragically I feel that their beauty is in exactly the reverse order of that, 'Lentezon' has red tips during many times of the year, whereas 'Bernstein' has less complimentary brown tips and 'Tederheid' appears to be less yellow than the other two. I think 'Tederheid' is less rot prone though.
It's my belief that all of these plants are within a generation or two of each other, and I'd lump 'Unicorn' in as Skrocki's take on the lineage. Educated guesses. I think their all montanums, another guess.

-Sol
Name: Melissa Hopper
St. Helens, Or (Zone 8a)
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MelissaHopper
May 16, 2020 2:10 PM CST
I have Tederheid and Bernstein. I have Bernstein in a tall pot so the offsets hand down the side, which is kinda cool. Right now I have Tederheid in a regular pot but I have another tall pot so am going to transfer it so it can do the same thing.

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Name: Karen
New Mexico (Zone 8a)
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plantmanager
May 16, 2020 3:08 PM CST
I love the pot with the hanging offsets! I'll have to copy that!
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Name: Melissa Hopper
St. Helens, Or (Zone 8a)
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MelissaHopper
May 16, 2020 3:25 PM CST
I really like the way it looks and I got lucky and the pot matches the plant colorwise. A friend of mind took some Bernstein offsets so she could make a pot like mine. Now I need to transplant Tederheid.
Name: Julia
Washington State (Zone 7a)
Photo Contest Winner 2018 Garden Photography Region: Pacific Northwest Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Forum moderator Plant Database Moderator
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Dog Lover Sempervivums Container Gardener Foliage Fan Greenhouse
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springcolor
May 16, 2020 5:03 PM CST
Sol,
I'm interested on why you would want to cross with these? Was it based on color, bloom timing or other?
I thought that this long stolen gene was hard to breed out.
I can see that unicorn is another similar variety.

I'm going to add the 3 others you mentioned to my list. Good observation!
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Name: Julia
Washington State (Zone 7a)
Photo Contest Winner 2018 Garden Photography Region: Pacific Northwest Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Forum moderator Plant Database Moderator
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Dog Lover Sempervivums Container Gardener Foliage Fan Greenhouse
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springcolor
May 16, 2020 5:06 PM CST
Additional varieties added to the list at the top .
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Name: Sol Zimmerdahl
Portland, Oregon (Zone 8b)
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GeologicalForms
May 17, 2020 2:17 PM CST
Julia,
The stolons are an issue, but the color is tough to beat. Other than 'Gold Nugget', 'Goldmarie', and 'Mitchell's Golden', these plants are the best rout to the illusive yellow hue, despite being fairly green most seasons. They're also slightly velvet which I like and they're some of the most prolific offseter's I have, great growers!
I've raised hundreds of seedlings from the group, so far this is the best yellow I've got, just posted it on the seedling chat yesterday. Actually there aren't many seedlings that are more yellow than what's out there my large batch, which is why I think that so many similar plants have been released with only slight improvements. I swore I wouldn't just release another one like the others when I chose to work with them, and I think this one is truly brighter, though its form is indicative of it's extended family...
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The difference between my seedling and it's parent 'Bernstein' is pretty clear. Here's a comparison, this is what bernstein looks like for me right now...
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-Sol Zimmerdahl
Name: Lynn
Oregon City, OR (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Garden Sages I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Database Moderator
Forum moderator I helped beta test the first seed swap Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant and/or Seed Trader Garden Ideas: Master Level
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valleylynn
May 17, 2020 2:19 PM CST

Moderator

Wow, Sol your 'Bernstein' is really green. Is it in full sun? Mine is quite yellow right now, in full sun.
Name: Sol Zimmerdahl
Portland, Oregon (Zone 8b)
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GeologicalForms
May 17, 2020 5:24 PM CST
It's on the south side of the house, so it's nearly full sun. Gets shade super early in the morning and for an hour or two in the afternoon. Part of the reason I'm excited about this seedling is that it's bright yellow even for me. Lots of cultivars go yellow in your dallas beds that don't here.
Name: Julia
Washington State (Zone 7a)
Photo Contest Winner 2018 Garden Photography Region: Pacific Northwest Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Forum moderator Plant Database Moderator
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Dog Lover Sempervivums Container Gardener Foliage Fan Greenhouse
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springcolor
May 17, 2020 5:53 PM CST
Sol, I thought the yellow color might be your motivator! Your seedling is great!
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Name: Sol Zimmerdahl
Portland, Oregon (Zone 8b)
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GeologicalForms
May 17, 2020 6:18 PM CST
Thanks Julia.
Seems like most yellow's have long stolons, all of the ones we've talked about do and so does 'Fernanda', 'Gold Marie', and 'Sonnenkuss'. Don't know why that's the case, but stolons aren't my first priority as a hybridizer, though I acknowledge they can make things look messy and I'd rather they were well behaved.
Name: Nathaniel
IN (Zone 6b)
ndmpkt13
May 28, 2020 9:31 AM CST
I have decided to do a little experiment with the variety of semps that I have from Julia's list above. I have placed 'Alchemist', Bernstein', and 'Lentezon' in the same pot. All three are chick produced this season and are starting out about the same size. Let's see how they all look in a little while. I'll keep the group updated with what I have found.
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Name: Julia
Washington State (Zone 7a)
Photo Contest Winner 2018 Garden Photography Region: Pacific Northwest Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Forum moderator Plant Database Moderator
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Dog Lover Sempervivums Container Gardener Foliage Fan Greenhouse
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springcolor
May 28, 2020 9:55 AM CST
Great experiment. Will be fun to follow this.
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Name: Lynn
Oregon City, OR (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Garden Sages I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Database Moderator
Forum moderator I helped beta test the first seed swap Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant and/or Seed Trader Garden Ideas: Master Level
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valleylynn
May 28, 2020 10:15 AM CST

Moderator

I agree with Julia. Nathaniel I am so interested to see how this turns out. Way to go!!!!!
Name: Bev
Salem OR (Zone 8a)
Sempervivums Container Gardener Foliage Fan Garden Ideas: Master Level Photo Contest Winner: 2014
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webesemps
May 29, 2020 9:23 AM CST
My semps are all in 2-4 inch pots and their location gives morning sun. I had Bernstein, Gelber and Lentezon and at the time I was surprised all three were so similar but they had characteristics that I liked especially the velvety texture and yellow-tawny color. BUT, the stolons did them in...
I kept Bernstein!
Name: Jo Ann
Washington State (Zone 7a)
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ricos
May 30, 2020 11:04 AM CST
Julia, I have been sitting this one out till I get clearer and do more observation.
I have Lentezone (goes too green for me and has thick long stolons)
Tederheid ( again very long stolons and fast increaser) This season I have one which has been in the same pot "forever" and it has turned a nice bright yellow (nutrient deficiency i think)
Bernstein very slow to grow and most manageable with shorter stolons than the others and attractive burgundy tips.
Unicorn is less gold than all of the above for me and I love how it looks but would never use it as a breeder as it melts in my winters...just freezes and turns to mush
I do not have any of the others.
This thread has helped me to examine these varieties closely and make a decision to get rid of all of them except Bernstein for several reasons. #1 being that the gold color that these are is my very least favorite color. I much prefer a lemon yellow and I have a bunch of lemon yellow seedlings this year which I am really watching. Most are turning a lovely shade of bright chartreuse green for summer. How long they stay green and who goes back to yellow for winter will determine who stays a little longer. None have fuzz but I thing fuzz would dull the glowing bright yellow that I am looking for. They all have great stolon length.
I did use Tederheid on Gold nugget because it was the only other thing flowering at the time.
There may be something in there but the seedlings are too small yet to see much. I think there is a yellow one with fuzz but we will have to wait a year (or 2 at the rate these are growing even with QS) to see about stolon length. I think long stolons is hard to breed away from. ?????
SSSSOOOOO.... Julia and Sol....I am leaving the gold ones for you. Thank you both for helping me clarify my thinking.
We cannot all go in all the directions that present themselves. Group hug
Name: Julia
Washington State (Zone 7a)
Photo Contest Winner 2018 Garden Photography Region: Pacific Northwest Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Forum moderator Plant Database Moderator
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Dog Lover Sempervivums Container Gardener Foliage Fan Greenhouse
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springcolor
May 30, 2020 11:11 AM CST
Great info.
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