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Avatar for WAMcCormick
May 19, 2020 2:49 PM CST
Thread OP
Bryan, TX
Are any of the amaryllis types patented?
Maybe it takes a long time to grow, but remember that if nobody plants it, nobody has it.
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May 20, 2020 3:16 AM CST
Name: Barbara
Palm Coast, FL
Amaryllis Master Gardener: Florida Region: Florida Dog Lover Daylilies Container Gardener
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Interesting question, I assume that you are asking about the Hippeastrum varieties that are marketed now. I do know that all the Hadeco ones from South Africa have a circled R after the name, indicating that the name is registered (patented). That is to keep another grower from selling them under another name. I used to have a link for an official registry: I believe that it was in the Netherlands. The breeder submitted the description and name to this registry. This way, if you buy a bulb labeled as "Susan" you assume that it is the original registered Susan. I don't know if this dutch registry also lists the varieties developed in Japan and other places.
Avatar for WAMcCormick
May 20, 2020 9:56 PM CST
Thread OP
Bryan, TX
I have some beautiful ones, but it would take years to reproduce them for marketing, but I have no idea whether they are a registered type. The original came with this house when I bought it. Perhaps if I sold them related to photos rather than a registered name ( if they have one) there would be no problem.
Maybe it takes a long time to grow, but remember that if nobody plants it, nobody has it.
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May 21, 2020 4:24 AM CST
Name: Barbara
Palm Coast, FL
Amaryllis Master Gardener: Florida Region: Florida Dog Lover Daylilies Container Gardener
Cat Lover Butterflies Birds Forum moderator Garden Ideas: Level 1
The role of the registry is to keep a large scale grower from selling a registered variety using a different name. Usually, if you "inherit" bulbs with a property, or receive "pass along" bulbs from someone, the variety name is long lost. You would sell them by color or markings, or describe them as "like" a particular variety.
Avatar for g_evere
Jan 28, 2024 9:15 AM CST

WAMcCormick said: Are any of the amaryllis types patented?


Following.

I have crossed two that I bought from Walmart. I will plant the seeds, and in a few years I will have what I consider to be genetically unique Amaryllis plants. My concern is that what if there is a genetic duplicate out there that has been registered or patented, and I market the offspring as my own? Even if I created it? Are Amaryllis genes variable enough to be able to prove this?

If I accidentally pollinate a plant with itself in the process, so that it's own genes are simply reorganized, is the offspring still considered that registered/patented plant?

Monsanto sued farmers for selling their patented corn to the point of putting them out of business. Some of the farmers were oblivious. Are there flower growers out there protecting their patents in this way? I'd like to start a small greenhouse when I retire and sell my own products. I doubt it would become big enough to be a financial threat to anyone, but neither were the small farmers selling corn.

When raising holiday cacti, there are essentially two main Thanksgiving cactus genetics out there - pink and white - and I suspect they have names. Many others have been created but the biggest population came from a couple of transports from Brazil, I suspect. I am also crossing them and starting seeds, which I suspect has already been done eons of times. Most people have plants that are clones started from rooting clades from the mother plant. So it should be easy to identify the millions of cloned plants that are likely out there. I consider the ones I cross from different colors and begin from seed to be my own creations. Who is keeping track of the genetics? Is someone? Should I patent my own creations?

If amaryllis plants are not registered or patented in the U.S., what stops a person from renaming pups from a Walmart plant and reselling them? Unless we are competing in a contest, who would care? This is not something I would personally do but I'm lousy at record-keeping and might sell it as a NOID. Would that be illegal?
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Jan 28, 2024 12:37 PM CST
Name: Barbara
Palm Coast, FL
Amaryllis Master Gardener: Florida Region: Florida Dog Lover Daylilies Container Gardener
Cat Lover Butterflies Birds Forum moderator Garden Ideas: Level 1
Welcome to the forum. I see that this interesting question has resurfaced on this forum. No one has really answered it. I know that the Dutch have a registry for Hippeastrum cultivars. Hadeco patents their own cultivars. I don't know if there is a registry in the USA.
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Jan 28, 2024 1:25 PM CST
Moderator
Name: Rj
Just S of the twin cities of M (Zone 4b)
Forum moderator Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Plant Identifier Garden Ideas: Level 1
Would think that if you do some crosses they would be genetically uniques, happens all of the time.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/we...

https://patents.justia.com/pat...

https://www.npr.org/sections/t...
As Yogi Berra said, “It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future.”
Last edited by crawgarden Jan 28, 2024 1:29 PM Icon for preview
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Jan 29, 2024 1:39 AM CST
Name: Ken Isaac
Bountiful, Utah, USA (Zone 7a)
Grow stuff!
WAMcCormick said: Are any of the amaryllis types patented?


Yes
You can search them here

https://digital.lib.umd.edu/pl...
Thumb of 2024-01-29/kenisaac/8f9490

This is not the hippeastrum registry, (https://www.plantscope.nl/ ) which is different, and this is not a registered trademark search, different yet again.

Can you be sued for patent infringement? That would be difficult to prove that your garden hipps were EXACT DNA copies asexually reproduced from anyone's patented Hipp.

NOLO said: A plant patent can, in most cases, be infringed only when a plant has been asexually reproduced from the actual plant protected by the plant patent. In other words, the infringing plant must have more than similar characteristics; it must have the same genetics as the patented plant.

https://www.nolo.com/legal-enc...:



But, don't use any trademarked names- that would be trademark infringement. Anyone could apply for a trademarked name on a patented or unpatented plant.

g_evere said: I will plant the seeds, ...

I market the offspring as my own....

Would that be illegal?


No.

And, welcome!
See the discussion above. The Hipps will not be DNA duplicates of their parents due to the recombination of cells- (meiosis) during pollenization and reproduction. EVEN IF you used the EXACT SAME PARENT PLANTS somebody used to create their patented plant, each sexually-reproduced offspring is unique. You and your siblings are not clones!
Thinking

g_evere said:
Monsanto sued farmers for selling their patented corn


Monsanto won't be coming for you if you don't sell their GMO corn as your own seed line, which is what monsanto claimed those farmers were doing- knowingly or unknowingly.

That's a 'utility patent,' which is more like an invention of a scientific process (genetically modifying their seed) and not just a new plant introduction from traditional breeding programs, like cross-pollinating two existing corn plants and selling the new hybrid seeds
NOLO said:
Utility Patents for Plants

These patents have been issued for elements of plants such as proteins, genes, DNA, buds, pollen, fruit, plant-based chemicals, and the processes used in the manufacture of these plant products.
....
under (utility) patent laws, the purchaser can sell the plants but cannot manufacture the seed line.
https://www.nolo.com/legal-enc...:



I've been wrong before...
Whistling
Owner: Bountiful Exotics Nursery
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Last edited by kenisaac Jan 29, 2024 10:17 AM Icon for preview
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Jan 29, 2024 10:14 AM CST
Name: Ken Isaac
Bountiful, Utah, USA (Zone 7a)
Grow stuff!
bsharf said: I see that this interesting question has resurfaced on this forum.

Here is the issue Barbara said 'resurfaced,' and my original response then. Some data about the hipps registry and crazy industry practices like renaming (sometimes called a 'trade name') and/or trademarking a non-patented plant is appropriate for this discussion, and I included it in my original thread post, quoted (and linked to) below. Some of the links are now invalid, as it was from a few years ago.

I've spent much of the last two (4? or 8?) years creating a nursery business for my own "after retirement enjoyment," originally involving propagating / selling Hipps, so I've been down this rabbit hole for awhile myself.
Is there really an answer here? IMHO, @WAMcCormick, @g_evere, respect others work (legally and ethically,) as you would like them to respect yours- but take a deep breath, and go make this stuff fun again! Hire professionals if that's where your journey takes you.
Ken

"I've been wrong before..."

Post #2643241 Dec 22, 2021 12:46 PM CST Ken Isaac

kenisaac said: And the third issue with naming a NOID is industry standards! (or lack thereof)

Case in point: Red Pearl VS Black Pearl
Thumb of 2021-12-22/kenisaac/a3be1f
Is the right one a Red Pearl and the left one a Black Pearl?
So you try to ID it? Only Red Pearl is listed in the https://www.plantscope.nl/ database, created/breed by N.L. van Geest BV, 's Gravenzande, Netherlands.
Thumb of 2021-12-22/kenisaac/0c3dfb

Hmmmm.... No wonder we have NOID's!
My pictured one on the left is a Red Pearl, but sold to me (and labeled as) Black Pearl. The right one is a Red Lion. I love both, BTW.
You can go read threads about people posting pictures supposedly showing the differences between the two "pearls" (Red Pearl and Black Pearl) and choosing which flower form they like best- or trying to ID which Pearl they have...and it's the same plant (according to https://www.johnscheepers.com/...)
Edited on 01/29/24 link no longer valid: Below screenshot from wayback machine archive
Thumb of 2024-01-29/kenisaac/7f6a69

The industry isn't too concerned about ID's, as they've chosen to call our Hippeastrum by the name Amaryllis for the last hundred and fifty years or so.
The problem can also be legal or due strictly to marketing, due in part to some varieties unable to be legally protected by Plant Patent or the similar 'PVP." They may be so similar in DNA / parentage to others, or the reproduction methods (I.E sexual) disqualify them for legal protection against propagation by another company.
So companies just basically sell "our version of chanel #5" with their own registered name (as in Red Pearl / Black Pearl), or sell them as a generic color, like this:
Thumb of 2021-12-22/kenisaac/337be8(https://www.johnscheepers.com/...)
I once bought a big bunch of hipps online, with a description of only "White Mini Amaryllis" because they were so cheap, but actually emailed the company and asked if they were specifically "Alfresco Sonata?" They said "yes."

It's interesting that on the bottom of Hadeco's "Alfresco Sonata" page, (https://www.hadeco.co.za/summe...) of which I assume they own the trademarked name, they tell you how to propagate Hippeastrums, rather than saying "do not duplicate" our trademarked variety


And if you just like the smell of 'CHANEL N°5' but can't do the $138 per 3.4 oz at Maceys... Hey: here's an $18 option for the same size. My nose won't be able to tell the difference!
Thumb of 2021-12-22/kenisaac/ce49be
Did I say my eyes like my Black Pearl just as much as any Red Pearl I've ever seen?
Hilarious!
Owner: Bountiful Exotics Nursery
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Last edited by kenisaac Jan 30, 2024 9:47 AM Icon for preview
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Jan 31, 2024 8:21 AM CST
Name: Christie
Central Ohio 43016 (Zone 6a)
Plays on the water.
Amaryllis Permaculture Sempervivums Roses Bookworm Annuals
Composter Hybridizer Cat Lover Garden Ideas: Master Level
Maybe you already posted a link and I did not see it, but how can one find out if a Amaryllis name ha been registered?
Plant Dreams. Pull Weeds. Grow A Happy Life.
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Feb 1, 2024 10:28 AM CST
Name: Ken Isaac
Bountiful, Utah, USA (Zone 7a)
Grow stuff!
cwhitt said: how can one find out if a Amaryllis name has been registered?

I'm not an expert, and since no expert that really knows something is speaking up- I'll share all my research in a tree-mail later this weekend.

https://www.plantscope.nl/
is the general registry (all horticultural products, including 1200+ hippeastrums, going back decades.)
Plantscope is operated by Floricode.
This general information page for floricode (link below) describes the process of registration and how to name something, and talks of trade names and marks, etc. Follow more links on the left of the page at the link below.

https://www.floricode.com/en-u....

I have a login for plantscope that allows searching of Hipps registry with lots of photos. It's really good for searching the photos by color, and the photos are all professional quality, which really helps to ID.

However, the registration looks like it may be European trade-specific only, with special interest in the Netherlands. This registration page is not a listing of patent or trademarks!

I say that the registry seems to be mainly European because the U.S patented Hippeastrums (of which there seem to be only 9) do not appear on the plantscope registry of Hippeastrum.
Link to the U.S. Patented listing for Hippeastrum (note: searching Amaryllis pulls up less...)
https://digital.lib.umd.edu/pl...

You can drill down and follow links to read the patent details, which are interesting, and would show you what form your patent would take. You can only patent an asexually reproduced plant, and these patents describe how each patent accomplished that.

And a highly-technical article about 5 of those US patented hipps- which goes mostly way over my head!
https://journals.ashs.org/hort...

There is another option-
You COULD just sell it off to one (and maybe the only) US Amaryllis retailers, and let them hassle with all that...

augustavabusiness.com said:Bloomaker anticipates its largest holiday season in company history for its amaryllis blooms. The company will produce and ship nearly 1 million amaryllis bulbs to stores across the country, including Costco, Trader Joe's, Kroger, Harris Teeter, Martin's and Whole Foods, from its Waynesboro headquarters. This is a 425% increase in amaryllis sales in the past five years.
https://augustavabusiness.com/...

Thumb of 2024-02-01/kenisaac/c918d7

https://www.bloomaker.com/

Ken
(who really thinks you should just skip all this, name it "Christies Pride," and sell the offsets on Etsy- Autograph each one as the creating artist! And, watch for my tree-mail.)

Ken said:I've been wrong before!
Owner: Bountiful Exotics Nursery
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Feb 1, 2024 11:07 AM CST
Name: Barbara
Palm Coast, FL
Amaryllis Master Gardener: Florida Region: Florida Dog Lover Daylilies Container Gardener
Cat Lover Butterflies Birds Forum moderator Garden Ideas: Level 1
Ken, what a wealth of good information. Thank you. I was surprised to learn of the Florida series of hybrids. I had never seen them in the marketplace or even heard of them. Bloomaker looks like a good source for Amaryllis bulbs. I bookmarked their website for next fall.
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Feb 2, 2024 8:31 AM CST
Name: Christie
Central Ohio 43016 (Zone 6a)
Plays on the water.
Amaryllis Permaculture Sempervivums Roses Bookworm Annuals
Composter Hybridizer Cat Lover Garden Ideas: Master Level
@kenisaac - wow! That is a lot of information - you really know your stuff! I tip my hat to you. I like the Etsy idea. Lovey dubby
Plant Dreams. Pull Weeds. Grow A Happy Life.
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Feb 2, 2024 8:34 AM CST
Name: Christie
Central Ohio 43016 (Zone 6a)
Plays on the water.
Amaryllis Permaculture Sempervivums Roses Bookworm Annuals
Composter Hybridizer Cat Lover Garden Ideas: Master Level
@kenisaac - wow! That is a lot of information - you really know your stuff! I tip my hat to you. I like the Etsy idea. Lovey dubby I had thought of naming it "Peaches 'n Cream" or "Fire 'n Ice", but "Christie's Pride" really sums it up! Lovey dubby Lovey dubby Lovey dubby Lovey dubby
Plant Dreams. Pull Weeds. Grow A Happy Life.
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Feb 2, 2024 3:45 PM CST
Name: Ken Isaac
Bountiful, Utah, USA (Zone 7a)
Grow stuff!
bsharf said: I was surprised to learn of the Florida series of hybrids. I had never seen them in the marketplace or even heard of them.

Yes. Curious. The key might be the sentence at the bottom of these slides: "for licensing information" and the notation to contact ARS USDA, as the creator was working for them (them being USDA-ARS-SHRS, National Germplasm Repository in Florida.)

If nobody decided to pursue that licensing agreement-
they might never have been propagated/sold. As the offer is being made by the USDA research arm, it may not be as motivated (profit-driven?) as a breeder in the Netherlands might be to recoup cost of development.
Which would be unfortunate, as H. Jax seems particularly striking to me. I'd totally buy it if I could.

Thumb of 2024-02-02/kenisaac/a72721

Thumb of 2024-02-02/kenisaac/cf00de

Thumb of 2024-02-02/kenisaac/f8010d

Thumb of 2024-02-02/kenisaac/f0a0a9

Thumb of 2024-02-02/kenisaac/b2b9e3

Even more curiously, I did find a reference to H. 'Jax' in the NGA database, entered in 2017, but no picture.
Amaryllis (Hippeastrum 'Jax')

And the most curious of all? (And probably only curious to me,) all of these have H. Papillo in their parentage, but I would never have guessed that.
Owner: Bountiful Exotics Nursery
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Avatar for WAMcCormick
Feb 18, 2024 1:42 PM CST
Thread OP
Bryan, TX
Wow! A very big thanks to everybody, especially Ken.
Maybe it takes a long time to grow, but remember that if nobody plants it, nobody has it.
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Mar 25, 2024 12:23 PM CST
Name: Christie
Central Ohio 43016 (Zone 6a)
Plays on the water.
Amaryllis Permaculture Sempervivums Roses Bookworm Annuals
Composter Hybridizer Cat Lover Garden Ideas: Master Level
This is the 4th generation of the cross I did. Both are from the same original cross. The hidden genes have really shown themselves. I am going to cross them to each other, both ways to see what I get.
Thumb of 2024-03-25/cwhitt/420552
Plant Dreams. Pull Weeds. Grow A Happy Life.
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