Plant Database forum: Are these plants the same?

Views: 642, Replies: 14 » Jump to the end
Name: Lin
Florida (Zone 9b)
Region: United States of America Morning Glories Region: Florida Houseplants Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Garden Procrastinator Birds Butterflies Bee Lover Hummingbirder Container Gardener
Image
plantladylin
Sep 27, 2012 5:41 PM CST
Are these two plants different, or one and the same? I always thought Phaseolus caracalla was a Synonym for Vigna caracalla and that "Snail Vine" and "Corkscrew Vine" were the two common names? I checked the ITIS website and it says that Phaseolus caracalla is indeed a synonym for V. caracalla.

So, should there just be one listing in the database - Vigna caracalla, with Phaseolus caracalla listed as a synonym. I tried to make the change but it won't let me. Can one of the database moderators make the necessary changes?



Corkscrew Vine (Vigna caracalla)


If I'm wrong please forgive me and disregard the request, I get so confused sometimes with these botanical/scientific names.

~ Eat, Sleep .... Play in the dirt ~
Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
Forum moderator Plant Database Moderator Charter ATP Member Region: California Cat Lover Roses
Clematis Irises Garden Ideas: Level 2 Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier Garden Sages
Image
zuzu
Sep 27, 2012 5:43 PM CST

Plants Admin

I'll take care of it, Lin. Thanks so much for finding it. Smiling
Name: Lin
Florida (Zone 9b)
Region: United States of America Morning Glories Region: Florida Houseplants Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Garden Procrastinator Birds Butterflies Bee Lover Hummingbirder Container Gardener
Image
plantladylin
Sep 27, 2012 5:48 PM CST
Zuzu: You are welcome ... I use the ITIS website a lot but I wasn't sure if it was correct. There's sometimes a lot of conflicting information out there when it comes to plants and I sometimes don't know what's what. Smiling
~ Eat, Sleep .... Play in the dirt ~
Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
Forum moderator Plant Database Moderator Charter ATP Member Region: California Cat Lover Roses
Clematis Irises Garden Ideas: Level 2 Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier Garden Sages
Image
zuzu
Sep 27, 2012 5:52 PM CST

Plants Admin

There is a lot of conflicting information and it's sometimes maddening. ITIS and The Plant List contradict each other regularly, and I would use ITIS exclusively, but it doesn't include species growing on other continents, so it isn't a perfect source. I'm still looking for that perfect source. Smiling
Name: Lin
Florida (Zone 9b)
Region: United States of America Morning Glories Region: Florida Houseplants Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Garden Procrastinator Birds Butterflies Bee Lover Hummingbirder Container Gardener
Image
plantladylin
Sep 27, 2012 5:58 PM CST
LOL, I'm too old to look for the perfect source anymore. Green Grin! I used to know the scientific/botanical name of every plant I own but the older I get the more forgetful I seem to get. Sometimes I know that I know what plant I'm looking at ... but for the life of me I can't remember the name. Sad



~ Eat, Sleep .... Play in the dirt ~
Name: David Laderoute
Zone 5B/6 - NW MO (Zone 5b)
Ignoring Zones altogether
Seed Starter Avid Green Pages Reviewer Garden Ideas: Level 1
Image
DavidLMO
Oct 1, 2015 9:34 PM CST
FYI these two are NOT the same. Vigna caracalla is scented. Phaseoulus caracalla has NO scent.

Just stumbled onto this thread.
Seeking Feng Shui with my plants since 1976
Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
Forum moderator Plant Database Moderator Charter ATP Member Region: California Cat Lover Roses
Clematis Irises Garden Ideas: Level 2 Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier Garden Sages
Image
zuzu
Oct 1, 2015 9:46 PM CST

Plants Admin

Scented or not, taxonomists persist in calling Phaseolus caracalla a synonym for Vigna caracalla. Here's the latest info (28 September 2015):

http://www.catalogueoflife.org/col/details/species/id/2b5bce...
Name: David Laderoute
Zone 5B/6 - NW MO (Zone 5b)
Ignoring Zones altogether
Seed Starter Avid Green Pages Reviewer Garden Ideas: Level 1
Image
DavidLMO
Oct 1, 2015 9:59 PM CST
Cool. I have grown both at the same time and they are different aside from the scent. But whatever.
Seeking Feng Shui with my plants since 1976
Name: Dave Whitinger
Jacksonville, Texas (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Region: Texas Master Gardener: Texas Permaculture Raises cows I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Garden Ideas: Master Level Beekeeper Garden Sages Avid Green Pages Reviewer Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier
Image
dave
Oct 2, 2015 6:35 AM CST

Garden.org Admin

You can see the clear difference between them:



One day these will each once again get their own distinct species epithets.
Name: Lin
Florida (Zone 9b)
Region: United States of America Morning Glories Region: Florida Houseplants Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Garden Procrastinator Birds Butterflies Bee Lover Hummingbirder Container Gardener
Image
plantladylin
Oct 2, 2015 9:22 AM CST
The blooms sure look different to me! I'm getting seeds for from another ATP member for V. caracalla and I look forward to sowing them and growing them out.

I read that Prairie Vetch (Vigna speciosa) is often confused with V. caracalla but you can see the difference in the flower shape. http://www.hear.org/pier/imagepages/singles/tropicos_1000079...
~ Eat, Sleep .... Play in the dirt ~
Name: David Laderoute
Zone 5B/6 - NW MO (Zone 5b)
Ignoring Zones altogether
Seed Starter Avid Green Pages Reviewer Garden Ideas: Level 1
Image
DavidLMO
Oct 2, 2015 8:06 PM CST
Uh @Dave - the pics are mislabeled?

We have a user here named Xeramtheum here. If you look for his name on this thread over at DG, he provides several items that categorically show they are NOT the same. Those are what I was alluding to above. I cannot believe the taxonomists cited above who say these are the same ever saw them compared or even grew them.

(I hope it is okay to post this here - sorry Dave - I have no idea of the long story. :-))

http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/1120348/#b

If someone showed me DNA evidence that they are the same, I would believe that they got some samples mixed up.

Seeking Feng Shui with my plants since 1976
Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
Forum moderator Plant Database Moderator Charter ATP Member Region: California Cat Lover Roses
Clematis Irises Garden Ideas: Level 2 Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier Garden Sages
Image
zuzu
Oct 2, 2015 8:44 PM CST

Plants Admin

If the classification of P. caracalla as a synonym of V. caracalla dates back to 1970, as that thread suggests, it was not based on DNA testing, so we can only hope that DNA tests have been done or will be done to confirm or deny that reclassification. Until a change is recorded officially in a reliable taxonomic database, however, the two plants will share an entry in our database because our database is grounded in taxonomic sources.
Name: Evan
Pioneer Valley south, MA, USA (Zone 6a)
Charter ATP Member Plant Database Moderator Forum moderator Aroids Irises Celebrating Gardening: 2015
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Tropicals Foliage Fan Bulbs Hummingbirder Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge)
Image
eclayne
Oct 2, 2015 10:06 PM CST

Plants Admin

Vignus caracalla has been misapplied for Wild Pea (Vigna adenantha) .
http://www.catalogueoflife.org/col/details/species/id/b971d6...

I don't know these plants but perhaps this is still happening. I'll let you judge. Here are a few links.
Vigna adenantha
http://plants.usda.gov/core/profile?symbol=VIAD2#tabImages
http://plantillustrations.org/species.php?id_species=1061578

Vignus caracalla
http://plantgenera.org/species.php?id_species=1061621
Evan
Name: David Laderoute
Zone 5B/6 - NW MO (Zone 5b)
Ignoring Zones altogether
Seed Starter Avid Green Pages Reviewer Garden Ideas: Level 1
Image
DavidLMO
Oct 2, 2015 10:22 PM CST
Well - I am out of here. They are not the same plant in this one humble man's opinion. :-)
And I have and do grow them.
Seeking Feng Shui with my plants since 1976
Name: Dave Whitinger
Jacksonville, Texas (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Region: Texas Master Gardener: Texas Permaculture Raises cows I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Garden Ideas: Master Level Beekeeper Garden Sages Avid Green Pages Reviewer Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier
Image
dave
Oct 3, 2015 6:38 AM CST

Garden.org Admin

I'm agreeing with you, David. I have grown them and I know they are two very different plants.

« Garden.org Homepage
« Back to the top
« Forums List
« Plant Database forum
You must first create a username and login before you can reply to this thread.

Today's site banner is by dirtdorphins and is called "Lilium 'Pink Perfection'"