Roses forum→Looking for HT varieties for no-spray gardening.

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Baton Rouge, LA, zone 8b/9a.
MikeInBatonRouge
May 26, 2020 4:11 PM CST
I am new here. Houzz isn't doing it for me. I miss Gardenweb. 🥺
First, I want feedback from anyone who has grown the HTs Secret or Kardinal(Korlingo) or both. I read they are fairly blackspot-resistant, and that is what I need.
I know there is a difference between "blackspot resistant" roses in general and "blackspot-resistant hybrid teas," which are notorious for being NOT disease resistant.
I have grown modern roses since I was ten years old. I was smitten by big fat opulent blooms of Peace and Mr. Lincoln, and the like. I sprayed preventitively for fungus for 4 decades, because that is what my local rose society insisted was necessary. (There is a certain bias among exhibiters intent on perfectly blemish-free foliage.)
But exhibiting has never been my main goal, only a curiosity. Living in blackspot Hell here in the central Gulf South, I sprayed to keep the plants alive.
A funny thing has happened over the past several years; breeders are coming out with better and better disease resistance.
Anyway, I have recently thrown out the sprayer, about 18 months ago, and I have proceded to replace the worst offending blackspotters. I have some very promising new baby bushes touted as being very to extremely disease resistant:
Savannah, Winter Sun, Francis Meilland, Grande Dame, Grande Amore, Paloma Blanca, Caramella, Pink Entchantment, Easy Spirit, Plum Perfect, Belle Epoque, and True Passion. I am eager to see how these each perform. I already have Dark Desire, Wedding Bells, Sunny Skies, and Beverly in their second or third years, and so far so good with health.

I LOVE the shapely HT blooms of Bride's Dream and Vet's Honor but am banishing them to big pots, because of their blackspot vulnerability. Paradise, another fav., is on probation. I am thinking Kardinal and Secret may be resistant enough to take their places in the communal bed while still giving that wow factor HT form. I would love feedback from any here who have grown either of these, especially in blackspot country. What do you think? Can they handle no-spray gardening?
(I know, I am long-winded, lol)
Name: one-eye-luke US.Vet.
Texas (Zone 8a)
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oneeyeluke
May 27, 2020 2:06 PM CST
OH my gosh! You just have to post some photos as often as you can please. I would love to see Savannah, Winter Sun, Francis Meilland, Grande Dame, Grande Amore, Paloma Blanca, Caramella, Pink Entchantment, Easy Spirit, Plum Perfect, Belle Epoque, and True Passion. I'm going to watch for them mike. Thanks for sharing.
NOT A EXPERT! Just a grow worm! I never met a plant I didn’t love.✌
Name: Lynda Horn
Arkansas (Zone 7b)
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gardenfish
May 27, 2020 2:56 PM CST
I live in blackspot hell, and I am also very interested in these plants. I do know that SoCal has plum perfect, and I've seen pics of it, it is very pretty. She says she doesn't have many problems with blackspot, but then she lives in California. Low humidity.
Yesterday is gone. Tomorrow has not yet come. We have only today. Let us begin.
Mother Teresa
Baton Rouge, LA, zone 8b/9a.
MikeInBatonRouge
May 27, 2020 3:39 PM CST
Not all my new babies have bloomed yet. If I can figure this site correctly, I will post some pics I have so far.
Plum Perfect, Easy Spirit, Winter Sun, and cat "guarding" my three year old tea rose, Madame Antoine Marie.
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Name: Lynda Horn
Arkansas (Zone 7b)
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gardenfish
May 27, 2020 3:54 PM CST
Wow, very beautiful! Lovey dubby
At present I have a climbing America, Iceberg, Fragrant Cloud, a NOID hybrid tea, Heirloom hybrid tea, two NOID shrub roses and two minis. And they're all covered with blackspot. Heres pics of the first flush.
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Yesterday is gone. Tomorrow has not yet come. We have only today. Let us begin.
Mother Teresa
Name: Suzanne/Sue
Sebastopol, CA (Zone 9a)
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Calif_Sue
May 27, 2020 4:47 PM CST

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Moved thread to the Rose Forum.
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Baton Rouge, LA, zone 8b/9a.
MikeInBatonRouge
May 27, 2020 4:52 PM CST
Nice pics, Gardenfish! I definitely recognize the Fragrant Cloud, America, Heirloom, and Iceberg.
Name: seil
St Clair Shores, MI (Zone 6a)
Roses Garden Photography Region: Michigan
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seilMI
May 27, 2020 5:49 PM CST
Welcome to the group! You have some beautiful roses, Mike!

You too, Lynda!

Except for a few very dry places in the South West I think most of the country is a black spot HELL! I'm in Michigan and with all the big lakes surrounding us we always have very high humidity and BS is a terrible problem. I would stick with the newer HTs. The older ones, while gorgeous, were bred for a world that sprayed with abandon. Disease resistance wasn't a priority. Exhibition bloom form was. Now there is much less focus on the form and much more on disease resistance. However, you will also find that the high centered exhibition form is not a priority on these new HTs. Many of them have the more decorative forms. It's a trade off. I think you've picked some lovely ones and hope they do very well for you. Keep us posted and pictures are ALWAYS welcome!
Coastal Southern California (Zone 13a)
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jerijen
May 27, 2020 6:31 PM CST
I grew Secret for a long time ... but I'm in SoCal.

However, when it was in the AARS Trials, It was said to have excellent disease-resistance across the country.

Is there no longer a big rose garden at that university near Baton Rouge???

FWIW, there is a lovely rose, collected in one of the old New Orleans cemeteries that might be good for you.
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"New Orleans Cemetery Rose"
There are two sources:
https://www.helpmefind.com/gar...
Name: Desertgarden
Central Texas (Austin Area) (Zone 8b)
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DesertgardenLV
May 27, 2020 8:05 PM CST
Blackspot is definitely a concern here, especially during the Spring. Olivia Rose Austin, Summer Romance, Plum Perfect, Cinderella Fairy Tale, and Purple Lodge are the roses that have remained clean during this very rainy season. Belinda's Dream has exhibited decent disease resistance.

In my minimal spray garden (Neem oil when the weather permits), disease resistance has been a top priority.

On my list of roses to try are:
Pope John Paul II
Beverly
Sugar Moon
Zaide
Rouge Royal
I just purchased Marchesa Boccella, Frederic Mistral, & Dee-lish
[Last edited by DesertgardenLV - May 27, 2020 8:22 PM (+)]
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Baton Rouge, LA, zone 8b/9a.
MikeInBatonRouge
May 27, 2020 11:58 PM CST
Jerijen, LSU does indeed have a sizeable test garden, but it is limited, as all rose gardens are, in the number of varieties grown. A good portion are frankly test roses not yet released for sale to the public. Neither rose, Secret nor Kardinal is present there.
As for New Ok rleans cemetary roses, those are mostly Chinas and Noisettes, pretty sure n their own way, but not comparable to hybrid teas; not really my thing. I did grow Natchitoches Noisette once, and other than being proud I can spell "Natchotoches"(pronounced "Nack'-uh-dish") and it being an historic rose for Louisiana--I visited the cemetary where it was supposedly re-discovered--according to Antique Rose Emporium, the rose is just okay to me, bot particularly compelling. To each their own; I like mostly moderns.
Baton Rouge, LA, zone 8b/9a.
MikeInBatonRouge
May 28, 2020 12:16 AM CST
DesertgardenLV, you have mentioned a couple roses I am not familiar with, so thanks. I will check them out on Helpmefind.com/roses. I can say but th Plum Perfect and Belinda's Dream do well fir me and are also growing nicely at our local Brec Botanical Garden, where I occasionally volunteer when they have pruning or planting events. I used to have Pope John Paul II, which is pretty and fragrant. But I sprayed it at that time, so amI have no exierience with it as a no-spray rose. I had/have limited space, so I stupidly felj for the hype about Sugar Moon. It is a rubty plant here, not just mine but also the whole row of them at the LSU test garden. I shovel pruned mine. Both Paloma Blanca(from Roses Unlimited) and Easy Spirit(from Heirloom) are looking VERY promising for me as white roses. PB is a Buck rose shrub but has hybrid tea form and pure white color. ES is more like creamy porcelain, looks fragile but is holds up well to rain and heat so far. Neither is very fragrant, though.
PNW (Zone 8b)
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Aerith
May 28, 2020 1:53 AM CST
I'm rather not a HT lover, but Secret is definitely in my TOP5 list. I've been falling in love with her ever since I saw her in Woodland Park Rose Garden, but I don't know why it's so hard to find one. I accidentally got mine on a return trip. She is my dream: pretty flower shape and color, strong fragrance, shade tolerant, fast reblooming, vigorous, and most importantly, excellent disease resistant.

Growing roses in Seattle with no spray is very challenging, even though some of mine are claimed to be very disease resistant, only few roses (not only HT) can escape from PM or BS (or more often, BOTH!). Secret is one of these winners. If I have more space, I would like to grow more!
Name: Seth n Sam .....
W.V. (Zone 6a)
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Weluvroses
May 28, 2020 7:09 AM CST
My HT list of Rose I grow in a pretty wet 6a-Bish Zone. With very little to no Black Spot.

Mister Lincoln
John F Kennedy
Chrysler Imperial
Ring Of Fire
Pink Peace
Blue Moon
Blue Girl

And Im no spray. Basically. Except I do spray the ground around my roses with liquid fence because of the deer and rabbits. They love to eat my roses.
[Last edited by Weluvroses - May 28, 2020 7:17 AM (+)]
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Coastal Southern California (Zone 13a)
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jerijen
May 28, 2020 3:28 PM CST
I heard a funny story about 'Secret' . . .

Before it was introduced ... when it was in AARS Test Gardens, Tom Carruth led a tour through one. He was pretty "High" on 'Secret' (which is why we bought it right away, when it was released).

Anyhow, Tom was singing this rose's praises, and mentioning that it would be released in a year or so -- and a gentleman slipped up to him, and whispered:
"Tell me what the name is going to be."

Tom replied: "It's 'Secret'."

The gentleman said: "Yes, I know it's supposed to be a Secret, but ... you can tell ME."

And Tom said . . . "Really. It's 'Secret'!

And the man said . . .
Name: seil
St Clair Shores, MI (Zone 6a)
Roses Garden Photography Region: Michigan
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seilMI
May 28, 2020 4:23 PM CST
It's very interesting to see the lists of roses that people consider disease resistant. I've tried many of them here and they were BS magnets for me. The problem is that there are so many different strains of BS. Something may be clean as a whistle in your garden and leafless in mine and vise versa. That's why I hesitate to list names. If you want to know what works in your area it's best to contact a local rose society or Consulting Rosarian. They will be able to give you specific info on how a rose will do in your conditions.
Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
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zuzu
May 28, 2020 5:11 PM CST

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Seil's right. I'm growing about 600 hybrid tea cultivars in my garden and all of them get black spot. In fact, up to this year, only Ping Lim's roses and Cocker's 'Playboy' were free of black spot in my garden. This year, however, even 'Playboy' had a hideous case of black spot.

Good thing I don't grow roses for their foliage. Big Grin
Coastal Southern California (Zone 13a)
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jerijen
May 28, 2020 5:15 PM CST
This spring, we had rain and rain and rain, well into when it "should" have been dry. And we had blackspot ALL over the place. UGLEEEEE.
Name: Desertgarden
Central Texas (Austin Area) (Zone 8b)
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DesertgardenLV
May 28, 2020 6:17 PM CST
Agreed, Seil, and as local as one can get advice, the more valuable the information could possibly be. I have found there are some roses that perform well in terms of black spot in a variety of regions or states. Roses that seem to offer good disease resistance in the South and other regions, if I am drawn to them, go on my list despite an absence of any specific information for my area. I think I have conceded that rose growing, within a certain degree of reason or calculation is "trial and error" and I am okay with that. I have to be as I have yet to find a rose society where I live:(.
[Last edited by DesertgardenLV - May 28, 2020 8:06 PM (+)]
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Name: Lynda Horn
Arkansas (Zone 7b)
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gardenfish
May 29, 2020 1:38 AM CST
I just live with my blackspot. Right now the shrubs look really weird, a ball of foliage on top of bare canes. The first flush is over and the plants have all been dead headed. The new foliage is clean, so far. I continue to spray on a regular basis. I don't know what particular strain of spot I have, but I can tell you it infects every Rose I plant, to lesser or greater degrees. Very, very tenacious and very stubborn.
Yesterday is gone. Tomorrow has not yet come. We have only today. Let us begin.
Mother Teresa

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