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Jun 7, 2020 12:11 PM CST
Name: Sheridragonfly/Sheri
Alabama (Zone 8b)
Salvias Celebrating Gardening: 2015
I contacted an extention agent and then they have sent the pictures of my daylilies with the buds basically in the ground poking out and trying to open their blooms
are now forwarded to a plant
pathologist at a university last week for his opinion.

First the agent asked did you use copper sulfate
to spray them last year for rust prevention
I hung my head as I heard that question asked of me on the phone..YES.

so while I am waiting...for the plant pathologist to answer my letter

I researched copper sulfate to see if it stays in the soil for years and if it will cause stunting and bud deformity for years to come in these
once striking and beautiful tall blooming daylilies?

It is possible that the plant DNA or a better word for it
has been altered by the copper sulfate..

I am not a plant pathologist...but I do have common
sense and a curiosity as to why something happened to my adored and valuable plants.

I can never remove that much soil two foot down in two daylily flower beds if the copper sulfate will be in that soil and cause problems for years to come in any perennial that would be replanted in those two flower beds...

nor pay for those plants again...

nor the labor physical..

Here is what they used to look like before copper sulfate sprayed twice a month and measured in water correctly by me.
Here are stunted plants with lots of buds growing out of the dirt...and flowers opening at ground level and crowded and not able to open because they are not on a scape or stem..

All were 34 inches tall and most up to 38 inch blooming daylilies..

you will see pictures of how they looked before last year.


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Avatar for Diggerofdirt
Jun 7, 2020 1:56 PM CST
Name: Roger & Karen
Birmingham, Al (Zone 7b)
Butterflies Critters Allowed Daylilies Hummingbirder Region: Alabama Seed Starter
Enjoys or suffers hot summers Plant and/or Seed Trader
Hopefully they were just stunted by the crazy winter we had. My early season bloomers were like that too. Blooming down in the fans some almost were on the ground. With that being said our mid season season bloomers are doing right. Tall healthy scapes. Buds opening correctly as long as the morning isnt too cool. No buds turning yellow and falling off.
I know this probally doesnt help but i will Crossing Fingers! and hope your midseason turns out better.
Every home needs a daylily, and every daylily needs a home.
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Jul 31, 2022 8:05 PM CST
Name: Pat
Columbus, Ohio (Zone 6a)
Annuals Seed Starter Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Native Plants and Wildflowers Garden Art Daylilies
Garden Photography Butterflies Bookworm Plant and/or Seed Trader Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
Roger & Karen @Diggerofdirt

I just realized what you said - your early bloomers had short scapes just like these? But the mid season ones were as tall as normal. Has that happened before?

We've established now that the copper sulfate did not cause this stunting. And I should respond to Sheri's @Sheridragonfly concern- the copper sulfate would not have affected the plants' DNA.

In fact, the plant tissue tests she sent showed that the copper level was almost below normal. So that shows the copper did not in any way poison the plants.

Also, sulfate is the dissolved form of sulfur that plants normally absorb to get the sulfur they need - it's essential. Any excess in the soil sinks below root level. It's generally harmless.

We're still working on determining what caused the stunting. Evidently a nutrition problem. Looking like low nitrogen (N) and/or potassium (K) both of which could have been higher. We'll supply more of those this fall and next spring and see what happens.🤞🏻

Pat
Using my middle name Ann wasn’t working well. Back to being one Pat among many others. 😄
Avatar for Diggerofdirt
Aug 1, 2022 6:41 AM CST
Name: Roger & Karen
Birmingham, Al (Zone 7b)
Butterflies Critters Allowed Daylilies Hummingbirder Region: Alabama Seed Starter
Enjoys or suffers hot summers Plant and/or Seed Trader
Yes. It has happened before. Especially in early spring.
It gets unseasonably warm,and then we have a cold snap. Warms up gets cold again. That's exactly what I think happens to them. Stunted growth
Every home needs a daylily, and every daylily needs a home.
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Aug 1, 2022 12:38 PM CST
Name: Sheridragonfly/Sheri
Alabama (Zone 8b)
Salvias Celebrating Gardening: 2015
Hi there
Mine were stunted in April and even rebloomers at dirt level
This year fourth consecutive year

Well it's interesting all the talk and sharing we have got started !

I am taking pats advice
Going to get ultra feed by Scott's
Apply a teaspoon per plant
Staying away from the centers

Sept and March 1
My hand application time

Continue once a month fungicide spraying starting March 1
Stopping sept 1
To help prevent rust


Sheri
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Aug 8, 2022 9:42 PM CST
Name: Pat
Columbus, Ohio (Zone 6a)
Annuals Seed Starter Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Native Plants and Wildflowers Garden Art Daylilies
Garden Photography Butterflies Bookworm Plant and/or Seed Trader Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
@Diggerofdirt
Thank you for the reply! So your midseason ones bloomed as tall as normal. But Sheri's later blooms were still stunted. Seems like hers have a different cause.

Greg Bogard @seascape reported that his short scapes were corrected by fertilizing with a high nitrogen, fairly high potassium lawn fertility (30-0-10). Since we know that low potassium (K) caused short scapes in one experiment, and also that nitrogen (N) is a factor in scape height and also general plant vigor which produces taller scapes, improving the nutrition of her daylilies should help a lot.

One problem with using all-purpose fertilizers like 8-8-8 or 12-12-12 as Sheri was doing is that the nitrogen (N) and potassium (K) are released very rapidly - within 8 weeks. They dissolve and are carried deep into the soil by rains before the plants have time to use them. She was applying them March 1. With the plants not reaching the period of rapid scape growth until weeks later, probably much of it was not available when needed. The leaves of her plants looked generally healthy. Many of them were on the plants when the fertilizer was applied or grew soon after. I think they did benefit from it. But then there was little or none left to absorb for the scapes.

And on the other negative side, the phosphorus (P) in those fertilizers lasts "too long" compared to the N and K. So it builds up, year after year. The phosphorus in Sheri's soil test was high enough to suggest that excess phosphorus (P) is contributing to stunting the plants. Changing the fertilizer should help overcome this.

According to my calculations, the 3 tablespoons of 8-8-8 she was applying amounted to the equivalent of 86 pounds/acre each of N, P, and K. That was not enough N or K - and way too much P.

In contrast, Ultrafeed has a 6-month release period, which will gradually feed the N and K allowing them to be applied at a higher initial rate without "burning" the plants, then gradually feeding them over a long period. Since it has 0 phosphorus, it will gradually allow the excess phosphorus to leave the soil.

I'll repeat some of this and add more on the thread Sheri started in the Daylilies Forum, https://garden.org/thread/go/1...

Pat
Attn: @Sheridragonfly
Using my middle name Ann wasn’t working well. Back to being one Pat among many others. 😄
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Aug 10, 2022 8:46 PM CST
Name: Pat
Columbus, Ohio (Zone 6a)
Annuals Seed Starter Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Native Plants and Wildflowers Garden Art Daylilies
Garden Photography Butterflies Bookworm Plant and/or Seed Trader Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
@ShakespearesGarden - Thank you for the acorn! 😊
Very much appreciated!
Pat
Using my middle name Ann wasn’t working well. Back to being one Pat among many others. 😄
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