Plant ID forum→ID for Tree in southern Indiana #5

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Name: Vickie
Elberfeld, Indiana, USA (Zone 6b)
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blue23rose
Jun 9, 2020 11:55 AM CST
This tree in my mom's southern Indiana woods is a very dark green. Guessing probably 60 feet tall... maybe more.
Thumb of 2020-06-09/blue23rose/7abdca
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Vickie
May all your weeds be wildflowers. ~Author Unknown
Name: Stefan
SE europe(balkans) (Zone 6b)
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skopjecollection
Jun 9, 2020 1:20 PM CST
Hickory or walnut maybe?
Name: John
Scott County, KY (Zone 5b)
You can't have too many viburnums..
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ViburnumValley
Jun 10, 2020 10:01 PM CST
That's definitely a Hickory - Carya sp.

This would have been a good one to take a picture of the trunk/bark, and then a picture that clearly shows the compound leaves - with how many leaflets. Any dormant buds would also be helpful.

It appears to have 5 leaflet compound leaves, which makes me lean toward Shagbark Hickory - Carya ovata. The bark on the trunk would be a giveaway for that species.
John
central ohio (Zone 5b)
PlantingOaks
Jun 11, 2020 10:32 AM CST
@ViburnumValley, is carya the only nut family that has a larger center leaflet? I am trying to get better at my nut-tree identification - I usually end up leaning heavily on bark and shells on the ground, and then mostly just give up if it isn't a shagbark and I don't see black walnut shells.

Ash has the larger center leaflet, but 7 instead of 5? That's another one I mix up.
Name: John
Scott County, KY (Zone 5b)
You can't have too many viburnums..
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ViburnumValley
Jun 11, 2020 9:42 PM CST
OK, PlantingOaks - I'm going to give you are hard time - but with the best of intentions.

Anyone wishing to ID plants should take a look at taxonomic keys, or read a few books (e-books are good too) on where to start. I learned to start with opposite versus alternate arrangement of leaf attachment along the stem. That is a great dividing line about what it can be, and what it cannot be.

Ash (Fraxinus sp.) is, was, and ever shall be, world without end amen - opposite in arrangement. Thou shalt not confuse it with Hickory (Carya sp. nor Walnut (Juglans sp.), EVER. Those species are alternate in arrangement.

As far as telling different nut trees apart, that's a different challenge. Yes, Hickory species often have a larger terminal leaflet - but not always! Take a look at Pecan and Bitternut Hickory. Their leaflets are pretty similar throughout. So, looking at the leaves is just one part of identification. Learn to look at known plants in the winter, and start to recognize the plant parts in that season when variable leaf morphology is not there to confuse you.

It is a joy to look at and begin to learn to appreciate the amazingly recognizable differences between woody plants in the dormant season. You apparently live/garden in central Ohio - which is an amorphous locational reference. Columbus is kind of in the middle of the Buckeye State, and there are a lot of places to go see identified trees from which to begin your educational process. Dawes Arboretum is in Newark, and Secrest Arboretum is not too far north of there in Wooster. Mission Oaks Gardens is in Zanesville. I could name more - and I'm from Kentucky.

There are many good dichotomous keys to work with. I started with a different "bible": Dr. Michael Dirr's Manual of Woody Landscape Plants, 3rd Edition.

I came up in the landscape management and horticulture profession, where knowledge of ornamental species and being able to tell what you were looking at in field nurseries was incredibly important. I took that knowledge to my second career after earning my degree in Landscape Architecture, where work in Louisville's park system required rigor in knowing which tree was which, recognizing plant communities, and being able to discern plants' affinities for soils, moisture, and other site conditions.

You may not ever care to dive that deeply, but with today's ease with which to pop out your cell phone and google up all kinds of info INSTANTLY, almost anyone should be able to observe what is in front of them and then move right into narrowing it down.

Opposite versus alternate; MADHORSE or MADBUCK are good acronyms to memorize.

Simple vs. compound; then the array of choices among those morphologies.

BARK is not just for dogs! Beginning to appreciate characteristics and differences in those trees you see EVERY DAY and already know, then translates to recognizing them out in their feral states in woodlands and forests. With digital photography available on every phone, you can keep records of these things and test yourself - or quiz others here.

Pretty soon, you'll be the grizzled veteran taking over for those who came before - and instead of yelling "get off my lawn" you'll e-yell "Show the WHOLE plant!!!"...

John
Name: Vickie
Elberfeld, Indiana, USA (Zone 6b)
Bee Lover Garden Photography Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Daylilies Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Region: United States of America
Region: Indiana Garden Art Annuals Clematis Cottage Gardener Garden Ideas: Level 2
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blue23rose
Jun 12, 2020 5:17 AM CST
Thanks! I would have taken a picture of the trunk/bark, but mom's woods is full of Virginia Creeper and I don't dare wander off the path, lol! I came home with a slight rash issue as it is... and I only got out of the cart one time to get close to something to take a picture.
Vickie
May all your weeds be wildflowers. ~Author Unknown
Name: Porkpal
Richmond, TX
Charter ATP Member Dog Lover Cat Lover Keeper of Poultry Keeps Horses I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
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porkpal
Jun 12, 2020 7:56 AM CST
But, Viburnum Valley, it is so much more fun to learn from you!
Porkpal
Name: John
Scott County, KY (Zone 5b)
You can't have too many viburnums..
Region: United States of America Region: Kentucky Farmer Cat Lover Birds Bee Lover
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ViburnumValley
Jun 13, 2020 8:20 AM CST
"Bert! Bert! Do you know me, Bert?"

It's A Wonderful Life, 1945
John
Name: Porkpal
Richmond, TX
Charter ATP Member Dog Lover Cat Lover Keeper of Poultry Keeps Horses I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Garden Ideas: Level 2 Plant Identifier Raises cows Roses Farmer Celebrating Gardening: 2015
porkpal
Jun 13, 2020 11:54 AM CST
1946
Porkpal
Name: John
Scott County, KY (Zone 5b)
You can't have too many viburnums..
Region: United States of America Region: Kentucky Farmer Cat Lover Birds Bee Lover
Butterflies Enjoys or suffers hot summers Enjoys or suffers cold winters Dog Lover Hummingbirder Lover of wildlife (Raccoon badge)
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ViburnumValley
Jun 13, 2020 9:50 PM CST
Thanks, porkpal:

Now, I'll question all that I hold sacred and true...
John

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