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Jun 10, 2020 2:35 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: Sad Oscar
Los Angeles (Zone 10a)
Zone 10a. Growing indoors with grow light. 3.25" x 3.25" pot.

Hello! I have the photoed adenia glauca. I would like to promote a round thick caudex. I've seen many people cut the vein very close the top of the caudex.
I also watched videos where they remove the roots during repotting (though those were adeniums).

Would anyone have advice on how I can nurture a nice round fat caudex especially as it concerns my particular plant? I have allowed the vein to grow - should I cut it? If I cut the vein, can the top portion be propagated and develop roots? At what height should I cut and when?

If/when I repot, should I cut the root system down?

Thank you all!
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Jun 10, 2020 3:53 PM CST
Moderator
Name: Baja
Baja California (Zone 11b)
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I have no experience with Adenia, but I can offer some info from my go-to reference book for caudiciforms, Pachyforms (a 2-book set by Philippe de Vosjoli which I highly recommend).

A. glauca may be grown from seed or from cuttings. The former may develop a globose caudex (given the right treatment), the latter will only develop "pachycaul proportions". I don't know what you have, but this information may help guide your expectations for its form. De Vosjoli recommends pinching the tip at an early age and says "pruning practices will determine the branching pattern and form of seed-grown plants".

Now what specifically that means for you is not clear to me, but I would think the best time to pinch would be fairly early in the growing season, to the extent young plants may not actually experience dormancy. I guess we're still in late spring and that would qualify, but I cannot advise where or how to cut.

Can you contact the source you got the plant from, and see if they might be able to give specialist advice?

I would avoid pruning the roots at this stage, or pretty much ever, unless there's some compelling reason related to pot dimensions upon repotting. The form you desire is mostly accomplished through your actions above ground. It kind of depends on how much of a risk you're willing to take, but from what I've read I don't think that risk is particularly high with pruning this plant, when it's going strong to start with.

Welcome!
Avatar for Smotzer
Jun 11, 2020 9:55 AM CST
Name: Connor Smotzer
Boerne, TX
Adeniums Bookworm Cactus and Succulents Garden Photography Ferns Houseplants
Seed Starter Spiders! Plant and/or Seed Trader
Okay so with Adenia's it really has a lot to do with how it was propagated and pruning early on, and the type of soil it was grown it.

Unfortunately a lot of Adenia you buy are from cuttings which will never truly form the caudex you are looking for. The reason for this is that plants are either male or female, which is less convenient to produce seeds, than for businesses to just take cuttings at a faster time and larger size intially. The swollen caudex comes from seed grown plant, and pruning early on in its life.

But you can develop some of that to an extent through pruning. I have done with with adenia and adenium cuttings. You can basically prune it very hard back to about a few inches above soil line. And It should produce denser branching from around that cut and promote the stem to increase in size.

But before I would recommend doing that, is I would make sure it is in a very fast draining soil mix first with high percentages of large particle size aggregates. This is the first step.

The reason for that being the first step is after the hard prune is made it will need to be on a higher fertilizer watering schedule. I do this with all my caudiciforms when they are young where they get put in almost extremely (80-90%) or instant draining mix (100% stone) and then get a 25-50% dilute fertilizer mix watering every time I water. The fast draining mix prevents build up of excess fertilizer in the soil while still being able to push faster growth development and better root development, and little to no risk of root rot during the dormant months in "juvenile" ages, which is a killer for young caudiciforms and pachycauls.

And with bajas comment about root pruning this is not super necessary and unless you actually know what to do and how to deal with it I would advise against it. That being said I prune almost all my caudiciforms especially my adenium and when I had a bunch of seed adenias. The only reason to do this is to develop radial roots and nebari. But this can be dangerous but with my adeniums I currently have at one point I completely cut off every root, I made a horizontal cut across where I wanted the base of the plant to be and where I wanted roots to form. This is also a step for bonsai pot training. But don't do this it's taxing on the plant and is a potentially dangerous process.

And don't prune the roots at time of repot just put it in a good mix.
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Jun 12, 2020 5:48 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: Sad Oscar
Los Angeles (Zone 10a)
Thank you both!

I received additional info from seller (and bought another one to experiment on Whistling - see photoed).

Background: They are grown from seed and a couple years old. Planted in mix of peat and perlite.

I would like to cut this one - Only if it will encourage a bigger caudex (so please let me know if in your opinion, it won't do a thing). I have bonsai mix 1/8 - 3/8 partial size. Once I find the courage - is there a location that you would recommend, would it be close to #1 or #2 (photoed)? This guy has been cut already towards the top which is why it's so bushy, has 3 growth points with leaves.
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Jun 12, 2020 9:02 PM CST
Name: Bob
The Kau Desert, Hawaii (Zone 12a)
Your first plant is top heavy already, why not cut that one?
If it were mine, I would make the cut higher. Position 3 or 4.
Leaving more nodes for more branches to sprout from.
The more branches and leaves it has...the faster it will grow.
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Jun 13, 2020 12:15 AM CST
Thread OP
Name: Sad Oscar
Los Angeles (Zone 10a)
@OrchidBob that had not occurred to me, but your suggestion seems so reasonable. It is now under consideration - I will update once the cut is made.

Would anyone know how viable the cutting would be as a new plant and the best procedure so it survives?
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Jun 13, 2020 10:46 AM CST
Name: Connor Smotzer
Boerne, TX
Adeniums Bookworm Cactus and Succulents Garden Photography Ferns Houseplants
Seed Starter Spiders! Plant and/or Seed Trader
SadOscar said:Thank you both!

I received additional info from seller (and bought another one to experiment on Whistling - see photoed).

Background: They are grown from seed and a couple years old. Planted in mix of peat and perlite.

I would like to cut this one - Only if it will encourage a bigger caudex (so please let me know if in your opinion, it won't do a thing). I have bonsai mix 1/8 - 3/8 partial size. Once I find the courage - is there a location that you would recommend, would it be close to #1 or #2 (photoed)? This guy has been cut already towards the top which is why it's so bushy, has 3 growth points with leaves.
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Hey that's good they are seed grown! You're in lucky.

Actually where to cut I would cut actually I little higher up about an inch or two. 1-2nodes up from your number 2 line you want a caudex that has enough mass if you cut down low this won't develop as well. . Where the base stops slanting upwards and becomes even the rest of the way up there's like a "white" node line a little bit more than the distance between your first two lines. Don't cut down too too low.
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The morning glory which blooms for an hour, differs not at heart from the giant pine, which lives for a thousand years.
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Jul 8, 2020 11:53 AM CST
Thread OP
Name: Sad Oscar
Los Angeles (Zone 10a)
Update:
I became too nervous to cut so low but I did cut!

Precut - Vine slanted because this guy really likes to follow light:

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Postcut - I may go (7) leaves lower:

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Jul 8, 2020 12:00 PM CST
Moderator
Name: Baja
Baja California (Zone 11b)
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I would do that.
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Jul 10, 2020 10:24 AM CST
Thread OP
Name: Sad Oscar
Los Angeles (Zone 10a)
Okay Baja, you convinced me.

Before & After:

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Thickness at white dot is 1.5"

I love these soft fuzzy leaves. I'm pressing some, hope it turns out. Lovey dubby
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Jul 10, 2020 6:04 PM CST
Moderator
Name: Baja
Baja California (Zone 11b)
Cactus and Succulents Seed Starter Xeriscape Container Gardener Hummingbirder Native Plants and Wildflowers
Garden Photography Region: Mexico Plant Identifier Forum moderator Plant Database Moderator Garden Ideas: Level 2
Looks great! Smiling
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Jul 24, 2020 11:57 AM CST
Name: Connor Smotzer
Boerne, TX
Adeniums Bookworm Cactus and Succulents Garden Photography Ferns Houseplants
Seed Starter Spiders! Plant and/or Seed Trader
SadOscar said:Okay Baja, you convinced me.

Before & After:

Thumb of 2020-07-10/SadOscar/1187b8
Thumb of 2020-07-10/SadOscar/c4baf3

Thickness at white dot is 1.5"

I love these soft fuzzy leaves. I'm pressing some, hope it turns out. Lovey dubby
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Looks better!! But from your previous post to this, next time dont be scared of hard pruning!! You could have easily taken it down a lot further!
The Millipede Enthusiast’s Database: https://sites.google.com/view/...
My Photography:
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The morning glory which blooms for an hour, differs not at heart from the giant pine, which lives for a thousand years.
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Jul 24, 2020 4:16 PM CST
Name: tarev
San Joaquin County, CA (Zone 9b)
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Such a nice looking plant! Lovey dubby I have not grown Adenia. But reading the discussion above, I think it will grow much better outdoors, seems to behave like Adeniums. The warmer it goes, the faster it will drink and fatten up its caudex. That is what I will do if I have one like that. Smiling
Avatar for SoCalLakeLife
Nov 18, 2022 9:29 PM CST
Name: Nikki
Canyon Lake CA (Zone 9b)
SadOscar said: Okay Baja, you convinced me.

Before & After:

Thumb of 2020-07-10/SadOscar/1187b8
Thumb of 2020-07-10/SadOscar/c4baf3

Thickness at white dot is 1.5"

I love these soft fuzzy leaves. I'm pressing some, hope it turns out. Lovey dubby
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Would love an update on your Adenia. I just placed an order for one. I have Adeniums now so curious on difference in care etc
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Nov 23, 2022 11:26 PM CST
Name: Nikki
Canyon Lake CA (Zone 9b)
SoCalLakeLife said: Would love an update on your Adenia. I just placed an order for one. I have Adeniums now so curious on difference in care etc



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It arrived… I'm very interested in hearing care differences between Adenium and Adenia. I read that Adenia love heat like adenium but that the caudex should be covered? Not sure if this is valid. I move my Adenium outside and they do extremely well in 100+ direct sun summer day after day. During the late fall (now) I move them to a sunny window inside and water sparingly.

So what care is different from my adenium?
Avatar for MsDoe
Nov 29, 2022 9:58 AM CST
Southwest U.S. (Zone 7a)
Hello Nikki!
Keep in mind the Adenia and Adenium are not related, despite the name similarity and presence of a caudex.
I stumbled into caring for an Adenia glauca at the greenhouse where I volunteer. I started out knowing absolutely nothing, and have had trouble finding information about care. I've killed every Adenium I've been near, but the Adenia has been doing well for several years. The following information is just from my personal experience.
Adenia glauca grows as a vine. It will not turn into a shrubby Adenium shape.
Mine goes dormant in Winter. I stop watering and fertilizing, and cut the vines back when they dry. I gradually resume watering with warmer temps, longer days, and new growth in Spring.
It's potted in an extremely fast draining gritty mix with very little organic material.
It likes lots of water in summer, a good soaking 2-3x per week. It gets no water when winter dormant.
It does great in long, hot 90+ degree days in summer. It is situated so the caudex itself is partly shaded, but the vines grow up to the heat and light. The caudex has stayed green, and is slowly enlarging.
Leaves were extremely chlorotic when I took over care. I upped the fertilizer, added some soil sulfur, sprayed with chelated iron, and generally fussed around with it for several years. Chelated iron spray did green them up. I then read that they are heavy feeders when they are actively growing. This year, I started fertilizing every week with Miracid, 1 tsp per gallon. Bingo, no more chlorosis and strong viney growth. It even flowered this year. (It's a girl!)
I don't know of anything, other than good general care and hot weather, that would encourage a larger caudex.
I would be very interested in any information or recommendations from others!
Here's a snapshot from earlier this year, when it was just starting its spring growth. Stems eventually reached 4+feet long, vining up to the rafters.

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Last edited by MsDoe Nov 29, 2022 10:03 AM Icon for preview
Avatar for MsDoe
Nov 30, 2022 2:52 PM CST
Southwest U.S. (Zone 7a)
I have one additional suggestion.
If the pot will be outdoors, I would shade the pot itself and the caudex.
The foliage does fine in heat and bright light, but pots can really heat up the roots more than is healthy.
Of course it needs to come indoors if temps are below about 60 F.
Avatar for SoCalLakeLife
Dec 2, 2022 2:02 AM CST
Name: Nikki
Canyon Lake CA (Zone 9b)
MsDoe said: I have one additional suggestion.
If the pot will be outdoors, I would shade the pot itself and the caudex.
The foliage does fine in heat and bright light, but pots can really heat up the roots more than is healthy.
Of course it needs to come indoors if temps are below about 60 F.


This was fantastic care information and exactly what I was looking for. How do you shade the caudex and the pot? It is inside now as it is really cold for Southern California lol in the 40's… it sits in a sunny window and so far seems to be doing well even as it enters dormancy. I have every intention of moving it to full sun outdoors when the weather heats up. Do you think it will be fine in 110° full sun summer with the caudex covered?
Avatar for MsDoe
Dec 2, 2022 8:05 AM CST
Southwest U.S. (Zone 7a)
I don't have experience with 110, that's pretty harsh.
I'd definitely shade both the caudex and the pot, and not place it against a sunny wall. It will need frequent watering, possibly even daily, especially if it is in the recommended fast draining soil and pot.
If it still can't keep up with the heat, the leaves will start to wilt. Carefully watch for this and move it to part shade if necessary.
In the greenhouse, the pot and caudex are shaded by neighboring plants. The vines grow to the sunny upper reaches, but the greenhouse glass has some shade cloth over the top. Summer temps are over 90 every day. The evaporative coolers can't keep up with the heat, but do keep it humid.
Some options for outdoor pot shading include shade cloth, other plants and pots, garden "art", double potting into a much larger pot, letting an in-ground plant grow up next to the pot, and whatever else might work for you. I've leaned firewood against the west side of pots, also let native grass grow, and have one that is surrounded by iris.
I've considered an army of garden gnomes, but it's really not my style.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
I'd absolutely avoid being up against a sunny wall.
Gradually acclimatize the plant to outdoor life in the Spring. Keep a close eye on it, watch for the leaves wilting and be ready to move it to a shadier spot if necessary.
Please come back and share your experience, tell us what works or doesn't for you. I can't find a lot of information about Adenia glauca, every little bit helps!
Anyone else out there with suggestions?
Avatar for SoCalLakeLife
Dec 2, 2022 4:16 PM CST
Name: Nikki
Canyon Lake CA (Zone 9b)
MsDoe said: I don't have experience with 110, that's pretty harsh.
I'd definitely shade both the caudex and the pot, and not place it against a sunny wall. It will need frequent watering, possibly even daily, especially if it is in the recommended fast draining soil and pot.
If it still can't keep up with the heat, the leaves will start to wilt. Carefully watch for this and move it to part shade if necessary.
In the greenhouse, the pot and caudex are shaded by neighboring plants. The vines grow to the sunny upper reaches, but the greenhouse glass has some shade cloth over the top. Summer temps are over 90 every day. The evaporative coolers can't keep up with the heat, but do keep it humid.
Some options for outdoor pot shading include shade cloth, other plants and pots, garden "art", double potting into a much larger pot, letting an in-ground plant grow up next to the pot, and whatever else might work for you. I've leaned firewood against the west side of pots, also let native grass grow, and have one that is surrounded by iris.
I've considered an army of garden gnomes, but it's really not my style.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
I'd absolutely avoid being up against a sunny wall.
Gradually acclimatize the plant to outdoor life in the Spring. Keep a close eye on it, watch for the leaves wilting and be ready to move it to a shadier spot if necessary.
Please come back and share your experience, tell us what works or doesn't for you. I can't find a lot of information about Adenia glauca, every little bit helps!
Anyone else out there with suggestions?


Thank you for all of your guidance and suggestions. Here is a photo of my make shift caudex cover for now. It's pretty overcasted today so the leaves are up. I've noticed that in direct sun they go down with minimal heat since they are inside. Have you seen a movement in leaves from midday sun exposure compared to morning or evening?


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