Roses forum→What's wrong with this bush?

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BluestRose
Jul 9, 2020 11:13 PM CST
I am admittedly very new to rose gardening. I have an established rose bush that basically had very little maintenance over the last 5 years (except for being trimmed by gardeners).

I have now tried to learn a bit more. I watched a bunch of videos and read about caring for roses. Early this year the bush was a mess. Hadn't been pruned and was seemingly full of fungus. I went through and removed all the dead leaves, cut some clutter out because it seemed like it had no circulation. It looks better! But now a few leaves have issues.

From my read this is either overwatering or some kind of mineral deficiency. Can anyone shed light on this? See images
Thumb of 2020-07-10/BluestRose/441237
Thumb of 2020-07-10/BluestRose/933390

Name: Porkpal
Richmond, TX
Charter ATP Member Dog Lover Cat Lover Keeper of Poultry Keeps Horses I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Garden Ideas: Level 2 Plant Identifier Raises cows Roses Farmer Celebrating Gardening: 2015
porkpal
Jul 10, 2020 7:00 AM CST
It looks great to me! It is normal to lose old leaves. I see no need for concern.
Porkpal
Name: Mike Stewart
Lower Hudson Valley, New York (Zone 6b)
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Photo Contest Winner 2020 Garden Photography Roses Bulbs Peonies
Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Dog Lover Cat Lover Birds Enjoys or suffers cold winters Region: New York
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Mike
Jul 10, 2020 8:06 AM CST
If only all my rose bushes looked as good and healthy as yours does!

I don't think you have much to worry about. As Porkpal mentioned, those may simply be older leaves, or they might have come from the bottom of the plant where it's typical to get discolored leaves as a result of some blackspot or limited sunlight. You could spray for it if you think it could spread, but I would rule out mineral deficiency or overwatering... that would produce a different look on the leaves, and you would see it all over the bush... and that's one healthy rose plant you've got there. Relax and enjoy the blooms.
Name: seil
St Clair Shores, MI (Zone 6a)
Roses Garden Photography Region: Michigan
Image
seilMI
Jul 10, 2020 10:07 AM CST
I agree with the others, that is one terrific looking rose bush! Looking at those leaves that is NOT black spot and I wouldn't spray anything. They are just tired old leaves that stopped producing enough food so the rose decided to let them go rather than use valuable resources to maintain them.
Coastal Southern California (Zone 13a)
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jerijen
Jul 10, 2020 11:20 AM CST
What Seil (et al) said.

What ever you've been doing, keep on doing it!
Zone 8, Alabama
patricia43
Jul 10, 2020 11:30 AM CST
Your rosebush has blackspot. You may chalk this up to a lot of rain, watering overhead or just plain old high humid weather. You can treat this with several methods including watering at the root with dripping or handwatering, keeping those leaves you see away from your rosebeds. It can reinfect. There are several antifungal treatments for roses by Bayer, Merit, and some other more virulent ones but with the small amount and beautiful rose you have, you might just try a handful of nitrogen and watering it in well at the root. NOT TOO MUCH, especially in hot weather. Otherwise, you can put a handful of cornmeal around the plant, water in and do this from time to time. IT contains some nutrients and nitrogen. The nitrogen serves to put on new healthy leaves once the fungus is treated. I hope that helps. I once wrote an article on this for a rose society and have spoken to master gardeners. I could go on and on, but try these first.
Name: Mike Stewart
Lower Hudson Valley, New York (Zone 6b)
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Photo Contest Winner 2020 Garden Photography Roses Bulbs Peonies
Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Dog Lover Cat Lover Birds Enjoys or suffers cold winters Region: New York
Image
Mike
Jul 10, 2020 11:46 AM CST
Although I see necrosis of leaf tissue that can resemble the necrosis that accompanies blackspot, after reading Seil's post I have to admit that I don't actually see any blackspot (e.g., black patches ringed with a feathery appearance). So the necrosis may be what Seil hypothesized: these may simply be old leaves that have dropped off that do not signal the need for any fungicide spraying.

BluestRose
Jul 10, 2020 2:10 PM CST
Thank you all for your replies!

When I first started paying more attention to this bush, it had tons of tiny yellow and brown leaves. A whole section /side was not producing flowers. I took off all those leaves and sprayed it a few times with a neem oil product.

I think that helped. Because now it makes flowers on that side and the leaves look healthier. I'm fascinated by the cornmeal advice and wonder if there is any harm to doing this even if those leaves are not blackspot?

I try to water at the roots with a hose. Maybe once a week. But I don't think the soil drains that well so I don't use a large amount. We do have a sprinkler system but it doesn't really reach the rose bush.

I have two new bareroot plants that I have planted next to it and I'm watering them every 2-3 days. How long before it becomes considered an "established" bush and downgrades to the once a week watering?

Thumb of 2020-07-10/BluestRose/bcf640
Thumb of 2020-07-10/BluestRose/277bf0

Name: Mike Stewart
Lower Hudson Valley, New York (Zone 6b)
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Photo Contest Winner 2020 Garden Photography Roses Bulbs Peonies
Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Dog Lover Cat Lover Birds Enjoys or suffers cold winters Region: New York
Image
Mike
Jul 10, 2020 3:10 PM CST
Cornmeal is useful as a fertilizer due to its nitrogen content, although I prefer a balanced fertilizer across N-P-K content... and for roses in particular, I prefer one that is higher in P than N and K, for more profuse blooming... or so the science would suggest. Some have claimed that cornmeal can also be used as a fungicide, but if I recall, that's debatable as there may not be much science to back this up. Moreover, if it's on the ground, it can't protect the leaves from fungus, unless you count the splash from falling rain or water.

As for when your roses become established enough to need less frequent watering, that's driven by the growth of their roots, which you can't see underground, but you can infer from the size of the growing plant. But I'd be more concerned with the dryness of the soil than the size of the plant. Stick your finger in the soil. If it's moist to the touch, it's OK. If it's dry a few inches down, it's time to water.

BluestRose
Jul 10, 2020 3:13 PM CST
Thank you Mike! That is helpful
Name: seil
St Clair Shores, MI (Zone 6a)
Roses Garden Photography Region: Michigan
Image
seilMI
Jul 10, 2020 5:54 PM CST
BluestRose, where do you live? How often you need to water depends on your weather and your soil. At 70 to 80 degrees you may get away with once a week. At 80 to 90 that will go to 2 or 3 times a week. Over 90 and you may need to water daily. That's why Mike's advice to feel the soil is important.

Do you know the names of the two new roses? They're lovely!

BluestRose
Jul 10, 2020 10:44 PM CST
SeilMI

I live in the Los Angeles area. It's ranging about 70-80 here now. Some days it's been very cloudy too, so yeah I will try to poke through all the mulch down to the soil and see how it's looking.

These two varieties are

"Rose Rio Samba HT"https://www.jacksonandperkins.com/rio-samba-hybrid-tea-rose/p/v2219/

And

"Rose Voodoo HT"https://www.jacksonandperkins.com/voodoo-hybrid-tea-rose/p/23739/

Thank you!


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